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When the somethings-larger we surrender to are allowed to bully us

14 tweets · May 2024 · 117 likes · 9 retweets · read on Twitter

society is currently in a grand reorganization process around the extent to which the somethings-larger that we want to surrender ourselves to are allowed to bully us

Matthew Pirkowski @MattPirkowski ·

@Malcolm_Ocean The divorce rate is a bell-weather of our cultural capacity for self-sacrifice toward something beyond oneself. But agreed that one’s own success / failure is bespoke.

a marriage is just one example of this and its power to do so came from other larger somethings-larger which coerced people into getting married and staying married despite not feeling a clear sense of "yes" themselves

what gave those larger somethings-larger the power to do that? well, they took it. somethings-larger that did that were more powerful than those that didn't call it "deserved" or not, it outcompeted non-bullying, at the time, and for a long time after

huh... it's paradoxical to try to talk about whether it was moral or not, because in the context of those memeplexes, they're the ones that define morality, and they're obviously self-serving about it!

but these somethings-larger also aligned with other principles, that weren't arbitrary bullshit but were self-evident to people one such principle being that humans want to be part of some sort of something larger and do what makes sense in the context of that

and so then these somethings-larger present themselves as the natural thing to be part of and surrender to

Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️ @Malcolm_Ocean ·

a classic psy-op: flow is when you surrender to the cosmos* *and we get to tell you what counts as surrender, on behalf of the cosmos

"God will punish you for your own good in order to maintain the social order" metaphysical claims aside, social orders were legit somewhat based on this premise for a long time

Jacob Aldridge @jacobaldridge ·

@Geoffiam @Malcolm_Ocean If you do any of these ten things, God has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time. But He loves you. - George Carlin

anyway okay what's with this change I talked about? the "grand reorganization"? well, first of all I'm talking on really long timescales. glimpses of it in Jesus's teachings, tho Christianity-as-such was still pre-preorg

Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️ @Malcolm_Ocean ·

society is currently in a grand reorganization process around the extent to which the somethings-larger that we want to surrender ourselves to are allowed to bully us twitter.com/MattPirkowski/…

but then with the enlightenment, reformation, etc, it became increasingly obvious that people should be able to figure things out together and not just accept authority without question.

Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️ @Malcolm_Ocean ·

"maybe we can figure it out together" is one of the names of God

which gradually makes it clear that the sort of something-larger that you want to be part of is one in which you can figure things out together that supports your sensemaking and also amplifies your sensemaking rather than subordinating it

...well, that becomes clear to the extent that you aren't coopted by some sort of pressure that claims that if you had clear sensemaking then you'd do bad things and you wouldn't want to be a bad person would you?

Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️ @Malcolm_Ocean ·

@patrissimo @OperationMoksha @QiaochuYuan I have some sense that this concern is structurally similar to the classic Christian propaganda "if people weren't afraid of hell, they'd murder and steal and stuff" 😱 ...turns out that there are lots of atheists who are totally prosocial, because they care about other ppl 🤷‍♀️💞

but as I've learned more about some of the cultures Christianity replaced, with their practices we now consider barbaric, it seems like what I'm calling propaganda was maybe *more true* then, than it is now that we've tried more Christian values & can tell for ourselves they work

which brings me to a more general principle of the Grand Reorganization (man it sounds culty when I put it in title case) which is that, given the option, people will gravitate towards what works for them

Malcolm Ocean 🏴‍☠️ @Malcolm_Ocean ·

you want to live in the kind of culture you want to live in

and so insofar as moral principles (new or old) can be recognized that help people coordinate better (at lower cost), then people will want to adopt those, self-evidently! (if they feel free to) honor is adaptive twitter.com/HephaistosF/st…