if you retaliate, and your retaliation is supposedly a deterrent, but was in fact anticipated by the agent you're retaliating against... ...whose game are you playing?
November 2023
@this_is_silvia whoa, what's the third one? I get a sense of souls touching souls with their songs
Retweeted @the_wilderless
@this_is_silvia fuck yeah, you did it!!
want to be the 100th backer on this project?
@p_millerd yeah no it's huge, it's a whole mess pivotal blog posts don't get written (or even conceived) because they don't fit in any of the outlets the writer has one Q on my mind rn is whether naming the @IntendApp blog intentionality(.sab stuck .com) is too-close of a name
@morphillogical @dystopiabreaker also there was literally nobody at the time positing that >1 gigaflop computers would be dangerous in fact many people around that time were skeptical about demand for computers (tho I guess this is about usage, not speed etc)
@chercher_ai I lost access to windows permanently 10y ago when it spontaneously decided to install an update on 1% battery when I didn't have the charger with me "⚠️ do not power down your system" —uhh buddy
parenting culture is converging in many ways, but it's also locally less homogenous in the sense of each parent facing orders of magnitude more choice in how to parent, vs taking for granted so many traditions/expectations
@simon_ohler @nosilverv omg tell tell that makes tons of sense
Retweeted @nosilverv
LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF such people are ~ not in sync with themselves frame control brings a surface/mask layer of them in sync with you whether or not it gets social censure now/later, you do incur paradox on some level via creating conflict with their other wants, which do exist even tho hidden
@HephaistosF Steve Jobs gets praised because while there's some burnout/stress for his employees, they ultimately do feel satisfied to have been part of creating something they didn't know was possible (if he was regularly demanding the impossible to a degree that people FAILED, no dice)
they don't necessarily feel totally integrated about that satisfaction, but it's enough to keep many going (evidently!) and others ofc leave and rant angrily about how they hate such a work environment; a good system filters those people out sooner vs later
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF I think the fact that many people who worked for Jobs actually feel satisfied both at the end of the day and at the end of the year, is supremely relevant here if that were not so, Jobs would not be admired, by capitalism (company would die) nor by ppl's souls
@HephaistosF afaict you're bitter because you feel like you didn't get your chance, and in some sense that's true, and it sucks and insofar as what you want is merely that to be seen and acknowledged, I would sincerely say this (though I doubt it will land)
Replying to @HephaistosF
and, also, you have had a bunch of chances and you desperately tried to do too much with too little and failed to build a viable bootstrapping engine
@HephaistosF the lesson? idk. start smaller? on some level you're trying that but you've still got the same desperation-to-zero-out-every-wrong, so in that sense you haven't learned rather than focusing on zeroing your ego's net karma, focus on making a lil karma-positive system
@HephaistosF you don't get to decide whether you got to have been good—I know the calvinist monster wants to eat you on the basis of that weird timeshattering mess, but it's not the only god out there you do get to decide if you want to make a lil engine of some good, today
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF yeah I don't know what I do know is that your current strategy looks like a guy playing a double-or-nothing game where if the dice comes up sixes once he can pay off his old debts, but he's just going deeper in the hole and keeps playing despite sensing the dice are loaded
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF ......it's hard to validate your frame when it hates you so much, and I don't
@HephaistosF oh, what I can say is that yeah what you're doing is structurally equivalent to gaslighting me into thinking that you're gaslighting me. I don't resent you for it; I choose to interact with you, when I do, knowing that you struggle to communicate without doing that
@HephaistosF I sometimes tire of it, and when I do, I take space but I am ongoingly invested in continuing to learn from you, and understand you, and find ways to see the truths in your frame for your sake, and mine, and everyone's
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF do I understand correctly that what you're saying is that you want me to give you the kind of social power that would make the moves that you're doing not-gaslighting because they'd be the kind of successful frame control that doesn't get called that?
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF that's a good clarification—idk if it felt effortful to make, for you, but it cleaned up the meaning of what you were saying such that it no longer feels hooky
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF mmm. yeah, it matters to you. did people specifically say that you should NOT try to cultivate tiny goodnesses, but SHOULD instead find a way to fix it all? my impression is more the opposite; the people you care about wanted you to fuck off and leave them alone
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF that makes sense weirdly in my internal mapping, the thing you're calling "giving you permission not to gaslight me" I would call literally "giving you permission TO gaslight me" methinks we need a new framing of the whole thing
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF ahh. and you're.... I'm trying to understand why it's vital, by your compass, to listen to them about this vs the idea that they could be confused, about whether that's accurate that's a reasonable ask, or likely to actually be good for the world
@HephaistosF like... they claim "That no act I perform towards anyone will ever be more than the same shit I did to them." and it seems like you, or a big part of you, believes this. I can see why that would matter if it WERE the case. what's the basis by which you're assessing it?
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF > have my frame control just be "what is" you mean to just accept your frames and operate within them?
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF well, that seems significant. and does give me some sort of shape of an answer if I squint something about the nature of how the injunction sits in you you don't have to poll further on my behalf
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF my model of frame battles, which is different from aella's & zoe's but which I haven't written up properly yet says that the reason this keeps coming up here is that frame battles occur when two peoples' frames are sufficiently far apart that they can't inhabit each others'
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF hmmm I'm listening trying to see what you're saying from your end about the way out of the frame battle
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF you're trying to join the collective frame that I don't personally experience resonance with but that you see me as supporting because I don't attack it. that's still all part of your frame
@HephaistosF and then you call it moving the target when I make that response but from my perspective you moved the target
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF my interface with the collective thing does a mix of: 1. trying to grok trust with you in tweets 2. not knowing or caring about you at all 3. wishing you well from a distance 4. puzzling about you as a case study in how frame stuff works that is what I experience, directly
Replying to @HephaistosF
yeah, was aware as I said that not sure what else to say there though. I guess nothing might have been better?
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF I'm trying to build new attractors, new system dynamics. insofar as old systems are doing stupid or evil things, I am mostly trying to ignore them and not feed them attention. to the extent that makes you unable to trust me, that's a cost, tho not an insurmountable one.
@HephaistosF but ignoring the stupid/evil dynamics doesn't mean not interfacing with the old systems, it means interfacing with them selectively
@HephaistosF am I doing that perfectly? of course not. I lack wisdom/understanding, and sometimes I lack attunement or presence as well
Replying to @HephaistosF
you're definitely speaking my language here. yes to this whole tweet 👇 I can't trust your reports of your senses but I take seriously that your senses are your senses and that you're right to trust them (otherwise this paradox you aptly name)
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF I mean you're right to treat me like the part of the egregore you perceive me to be! and in response, I'm going to be dealing with whatever tension arises between your description and my experience a la
@HephaistosF (argh tweet previews now cut off after 4 lines) a la "if we can't tell you're with us, then we must take precautions towards you as if you might be against us"
and this tension increases dramatically whenever you attempt to ascribe my motives or perceptions, not just what you expect to experience on your end of the interface
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF that does sound like the Heph version, yup!
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF can you be more precise here about... what's the risk exactly? am I asking you to trust me in a way you could maybe trust me in isolation but can't while you sense the egregore is using me in this particular way? (or could, if it wanted) what are you concerned would happen?
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF uhhhh either? maybe I'm missing something here. this question surprised me. re-reading... oh. me-Malcolm the egregore you're relating with, we must assume by how it's showing up in your world, is unconscious and hides its own motives from itself
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF it would incur a lot of paradox for me (a lil among randos but substantially among the people I respect most) for me to squash you tho you may not have access to that fact and I would not (as a matter of deep deep principle) ask you to take it at face value
so yeah, that makes sense. people like me, in your world, do eventually try to squash you. I can try to keep that in frame more but it ends up feeling hard to communicate because everything I say feels like a threat? but maybe you're already experiencing that and are asking for me to acknowledge it. that seems about right.
sorry, it's just really weird. communicating with you often feels nearly backwards from how I communicate with everybody else, but I have strong principles against special-casing so in order to do it I need to somehow see how this is in fact respecting you when it would seem disrespectful to everybody else I talk to.
(whoa wait, huh. do I just have a "don't [overtly? casually? cruelly?] threaten people" principle which pings a violation by the mere recognition that you experience many things I say as effectively such a threat regardless of whether I intend them that way (which basically never do, which is maybe why you find me in the role of polite apologist for the egregore???) O.o ^ I am making a bunch of that face rn
Replying to @HephaistosF
I have an ecological sense, it's just not tuned to threat detection and these particular kinds of betrayals the way yours is it's not not an ecological sense
Replying to @HephaistosF
okay, I'm orienting to this, and I want to ask a question about your sense of my sense of things, as part of taking in your sense of things. can I check here—you are aware, right, that from my perspective what you're describing is a completely out-of-distribution event? inconceivable, "not in a million years", seems less likely than me majorly contributing to a cure for cancer despite never having studied biology. that that's how it sits in me like I was assuming you knew this but maybe you don't actually know this?? I ask as part of the process of opening to the possibility that it would/could happen in a way that I'd be participating in, as part of sincere dialoguing with you. like I need to check your model of my distribution to know how to update appropriately based on what you're saying
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF working on this, slowly seems like this is the next piece:
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF you're the one who said "If you can squash me like a bug" not "if you can participating in trying to squash me" you're the one who framed it as me doing the squashing. I was responding in your frame twitter.com/HephaistosF/st…
I don't deny I would potentially do nothing, and perhaps thereby legitimize what's happening that's the extent to which I participated in such a thing happening before, and I own that. I didn't actively lean any of my weight/will/prime on the squashing (idk if you know that; idk if you have what you would need to believe that it's true, but it's my honest report)
@visakanv @malevolentrance my guess is there are some useful generalizations to be found about the nature and ubiquity of learning but they involve paying attention not just to kiddo but to self and the rest of the world too
this tweet micro-enlightened me from memory a week later as I was kinda half-meditating, half-stretching/playing, and was vaguely conflicted about what to do next and I realized I could just relax into being conflicted, as part of my learning process! I could just be baby
no right answers! try stuff! learn!
one of my fav excerpts from one of my fav books (Making Sense of Behavior: The Meaning of Control, by William T. Powers, about PCT (Perceptual Control Theory) chapter on Learning starts with beautiful lil case study of a baby crying
@NotSoSmolBirb @visakanv you might dig this:
> Consider a crying baby. Why is the baby crying? Some standard answers are because it is hungry, because it is thirsty, because it is sick, because a diaper pin is sticking into it, because it wants its mother, because it needs burping, because it needs changing, or simply…
@meekaale @selentelechia evolution already unfolds outwards which is what memetic evolution did before we ate the fruit (and the snake venom) our capacity to do it consciously may have come from that though but the fact that the painful separation from god did too is... not incidental, but repairable
@visakanv @selentelechia found the whole book quite insightful for parenting and it's satisfyingly uhh nonpaternalistic compared to what I imagine Parenting Books to be like twitter.com/selentelechia/…
@visakanv somehow the numbers on yours feel based like you knew how the convo was gonna go?
wrong a longer post about this as a QT also forgive me for making it a longpost. I don't know what got into me. it started by wanting to just quote the text, which required a longpost.
Retweeted @visakanv
let the schaffengeist flow through you
@visakanv yessss I see your schaffengeist is showing too
@visakanv (google translate thinks maybe it should be schaffensgeist, not schaffengeist... can @BlackForestBoi or another german speaker weigh in?)
he says "we must teach israel a lesson" and also "does that mean the annihilation of israel?" "yes" these are basically contradictory
also
@MEMRIReports from Carse's Finite & Infinite Games: > Evil is the termination of infinite play... to eliminate the play of another regardless of the rules. > Evil is never intended as evil. Indeed, the contradiction inherent in all evil is that it originates in the desire to eliminate evil.
@MEMRIReports this applies both to what Hamas is doing and to how others respond
okay here me out: longform twitter posts let you embed photos partway down posts. why not embed tweets too?
how dualistic are you on a scale from 1 to 2?
@visakanv (for those unfamiliar, I have a proposal about this) blog post: malcolmocean.com/2021/11/twitte…
> Evil is never intended as evil. Indeed, the contradiction inherent in all evil is that it originates in the desire to eliminate evil. this applies both to what Hamas is doing and to how the world decides to relate to Hamas
a nuance arguably a non-evil solution would be for Hamas as terrorist organization to cease to exist, without the Palestinian people ceasing to exist maybe Hamas would say Israel should cease to exist, but the people of Israel should live happily elsewhere?
it is human nature to seek vengeance and it is also human nature to forgive only the latter leads to peace
@argantina123 I don't know what each person needs in order to find forgiveness. I don't know what the Palestinians as a people need. I don't know what Israelis and other Jews need either. This is a conversation humanity does not know how to have yet—we will, apparently, learn or die trying.
cool visualization—the final rotation kinda misses how far out these last few months have been twitter.com/marksubbarao/s…
time to get the sulphur dioxide back in the atmosphere? well, maybe not 👇😬 but it might be time to do something
but we could maybe just spray the ocean into the sky instead. that would be cheaper safer easier
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF I mean Hamas is obviously not in favor of the people of Israel being happy anywhere but in any case you're... just wrong here? WWII ended without the total destruction of Germany or the German people. it required overpowering Germany, but not eliminating it.
@giray_arat I wasn't looking for anything in particular. the algorithm gave me someone QTing this to highlight Hamas' stance, and I felt I wanted to say something about it I don't take Hamas's opinions to be "Arab opinions" in general
@giray_arat could have done more saying-the-obvious in my first tweet, you're helping me realize. tweeting is not my top priority today (which it is sometimes)
@garybasin well, yeah. but also no. only a fool thinks "that'll teach you a lesson" when throwing out the trash and meanwhile
@this_is_silvia ooooh ah yes of course. I see it
@ladymcscope you have unlocked one (1) paradox
@QuinnyPig @patio11 yeah you'd just search something like patio11 wework bonds eg twitter.com/search?q=patio…
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF that also seems good but even if clear political will it would take at MINIMUM a few years to get more nuclear plants running enough to make a difference in GHG
really helpful perspective on how the paradox of tolerance is showing up loudly in current events we urgently need whatever it is that transcends and includes liberalism
omfg this is so good. has a few other improvements too
it has come to my attention that the guy I quoted maybe has a bad theory of what should be done about this I would like to make it clear that I have no idea what he's proposing and that I'm not endorsing it
just on priors his proposed solution is probably bad because most proposed solutions are bad
fuck acquisitions
Retweeted @_arvind
This is all I can bring myself to say about the horrors in Gaza/Israel: 1. war crimes are bad 2. there is no exchange rate for…
@swardley or useful at questions where you can safely verify or test the answers on your own! (eg writing code)
Retweeted @RhysLindmark
This is important memetic engineering. If you want to build housing, don't say the word "developer". Approval drops 40%…
Replying to @Evolving_Ego
@Evolving_Ego as always: enough in common to be able to sort out trust between us, enough different that we're not redundant
Vervaeke talks about virtual engines being made of dynamic tradeoffs in an opponent processing relationship and now I'm starting to notice these he names: - variation & selection for evolution - efficiency-resiliency for relevance realization - PSNS & SNS for organism arousal
hit me with the best takes you've seen about Israel/Palestine etc etc etc I'm especially interested in stuff modelling system dynamics, egregores, history, narrative forces at play
I have tipped my egregoric info-diet slightly too far in a particular direction
I can tell because I'm not even sure how to frame what I'm looking for in order to balance it, without it coming across as "please give me the takes that are obviously bad"
ah maybe the issue is that I've been reading biased sources. maybe what to look for is more balanced sources in the first place
so yeah I'm just gonna make this very general prompt and see what I get, and maybe avoid reading anything that seems like it'll increase my bias
(less interested in developments on the timescale of days/weeks, more interested in stuff that either was or basically could have been written a month ago. but if new stuff is about shifting media/culture landscapes then yes please!)
@MJPiercello Matthew I've been thinking about what your bottleneck is... feels like it's not more of these posts, tho they are good. for me, I'm sold on "let's try LoRC" but I lack affordances to do so. maybe host some events (I would co-host!) or record a video demo or something?
what are the people who are engaged in the various Palestine protests around the world demanding? 🇵🇸 (if you want, you can tell me what they're demanding without being aware of it, but if so you must also answer the question "what do they think they're demanding?")
@Shadow_Rebbe thanks, this is helpful! kinda surprised tho, as that hasn't been my impression, except for the uhh hospital parking lot explosion? what are the main fact camps?
Replying to @tophinity
@tophinity hmm this seems like the sort of thing that might plausibly be up my alley but I don't have time to read it right now can you give a couple tweets on the basic gist, that might seduce me into reading it?
@VividVoid_ yes; and they've got a lot of baggage like this, and everything underneath it, isn't obvious to most people I think
I resonate with this but—you're not forcing people to read! instead, the emergence/self-organization in a different place: with the reader write post titles that people will be drawn to iff the post is right for them trust them to unsubscribe if it's not a fit
@AskYatharth I would be down to have you send me an essay now and then
@Conaw congrats! may your church and union hold, and hold each other
@visakanv @RonenV weird idea: make him an email address now and start sending them
Retweeted @colinmegill
This is the future, not dead end ethnonationalism.
@OshanJarow @Philip_Goff hmm, does betteridge's law apply to chapter titles?
@OshanJarow @Philip_Goff curious if his take is anything like mine
Thread · A running collection of tables of contents I love · 1 of 6 tweets
short but sweet
@OshanJarow @Philip_Goff if you're interested in a take on how to orient to a viable omni-god (doesn't have any dogma about it) this video is ❤️🔥 youtube.com/watch?v=X6MYsK…
Retweeted @ManifoldMarkets
Imagine what @CommunityNotes could be if it included prediction markets.
@base_rate_times @Polymarket start of 2024 or end of 2024?
@pangmeli I've been vaguely aware of this, without quite seeing it. valuing you naming it
well, this was a nice succinct summary of wtf Israel is up to on the ground. (supposedly; I have fact-checked nothing) twitter.com/eigenrobot/sta…
hmmm these folks are taking a stance for peace idk what their endgame plan is tho. Israel pulls out, Hamas does what? given that Hamas wants Israel to end and has said they'll massacre as many times as needed?
maybe I cursed myself this morning. I went to tweet a few things, and forgot to move my Nowtender duck off the 'tweet' spot, and then I got lost on twitter all afternoon 🦆 youtube.com/watch?v=pegzGl…
awakeward
at a ~resto with touchscreen ordering. fine, ok. machine demands my phone # for "order updates". staff encourages me to put a random # in & grins when I point out that an innocent bystander might get spammed wtf. woulda walked out but friend had already ordered
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF Yeah noticing the grin in particular I felt a sense of connection with you. It felt demonic.
idea for a burning man installation: some inside place that's sealed to be totally dark during the day except for some sunlight piped in and refracted into epic full rainbows via prisms ☀️◽🏳️🌈
hmu with a waymo invite code if u got one plzthx
@relic_radiation World can be healthy and still have room for improvement. Is already, to some extent. Is not, in other ways.
Retweeted @tasshinfogleman
how do you gather activation energy for your tasks and projects?
Retweeted @__drewface
The kid doesn't think they're playing. The kid feels proud and meaningful when they voluntarily *choose* to do real "adult…
@the_wilderless the creature that eats moloch is still sleeping
@eshear One I've been chewing on: what transcends and includes liberalism? how do we solve the paradox of tolerance? (both in the abstract and specifically as you and I in our interactions today and next year)
Replying to @alexishelping
@alexislearning running towards a sunset
Replying to @alexishelping
@alexislearning slowly tidying the room before bed
Replying to @alexishelping
@alexislearning love that is comfortable, playful
Replying to @alexishelping
@alexislearning self-awareness
Replying to @phallusoraptors
@phallusoraptors Also if this appeals to you but you think it's not true of all women, then it doesn't matter because it's probably true of the sort of women you'd be into, so go for it anyway!
@s0ulDirect0r Yeah suits you. Evokes a dance between shadow and light
from my perspective the fact that parts (or people) are communicating in ways that are "unacceptable" in whatever sense is a sign of not having been listened to for some time already (by me or by others)... so as far as "incentivizing" goes it's like well, yes, they may persist with this pattern if it seems to work, but they're already doing this pattern, and I may be better able to show them a different one by responding kindly to their current abrasive one — including caring for what they're asking for, rather than refusing to cooperate until they ask differently — and then modeling a new possibility for them... vs trying to "disincentivize" them asking for something in what is currently the only way that seems viable to them, which can amount to a message of "you can only get the thing you want if you stop wanting it" which is crazymaking. the message is just as crazymaking even if you don't intend it that way, if it lands that way, and you don't get to control how it lands. boundaries are important but a lot of fuckery can be justified in the name of boundaries or whatever, and I find that trying to sculpt others behavior via incentives in this way is usually at least slightly fuckery. vs "I simply won't tolerate this so I'm going over here"—you're not trying to change them, although it may have the effect that they need to change in order to get what they way. but "I'm going over here" doesn't work really with internal parts, hence a way in which setting boundaries internally & externally is profoundly different
Thread · Getting married, and how a wedding reweaves social fabric · 1 of 5 tweets
Married @utotranslucence this week in the presence of a hundred people we love ❤️🔥 to have and to hold from this day forward, in gain and in loss, in fame and in insignificance, when blamed and when praised, in pleasure and in pain, until death do us part.
Retweeted @utotranslucence
This week I married @Malcolm_Ocean in the religion that doesn't exist yet. Now not-one, not-two, together
@utotranslucence now we get to overtly marriagepoast instead of just vague stuff like this
Retweeted @aphercotropist
yes and this only makes interpretive work more important, not less, because 1. you learned about meditation from people…
@RichDecibels saved your ^ tweet for a couple months so I could reply today 😉
@RichDecibels @utotranslucence we are confused about this tweet sir is the "they" here us? or the emojis? or???
Thread · Getting married, and how a wedding reweaves social fabric · 1 of 5 tweets
@utotranslucence holy wedlock is one of the deepest human mysteries one that we're now exploring together from inside although we've already explored a lot on the way in!
@RichDecibels @utotranslucence ahhh turns out what we were missing context on was not the "they" but the rest of your tweet knowyourmeme.com/memes/so-real-…
@utotranslucence @LordChisholm would probably know
@utotranslucence wow this is really beautiful. I love the open-ended structure
Thread · Getting married, and how a wedding reweaves social fabric · 1 of 5 tweets
@utotranslucence something that was striking to me was how much the wedding (and the days together around it) was about weaving together our families and friendgroups it was beautiful and humbling to watch the social fabric rearrange itself to make us a family
Retweeted @the_wilderless
“The tactics for getting status WITHIN the group are directly opposed to the tactics for spreading the message BEYOND t…
“The tactics for getting status WITHIN the group are directly opposed to the tactics for spreading the message BEYOND the group”
@the_wilderless @Morphenius relevant to our convo about people wanting to be more "articulate", and how that's distinct from being in touch with your own knowing
@the_wilderless mmmmmm yeah part of the shift, I think, comes from learning to trust that the kind of thing that Game B etc is is the kind of thing that memetics will converge upon from many angles, so even oversimplified/dumbed-down interfaces are hugely valuable (less true of other causes)
@grantadever The 25th birthday thing is a complete myth they literally studied 18-25yos and asked when brain stopped being plastic and reported "does not stop changing before age 25" but we have lots of evidence that it doesn't stop ever
@learning_sprite @utotranslucence Mmmm, more you want to say about the stunningness? what did it feel like?
Retweeted @utotranslucence
I married a man with a last name as vast and deep as the love we hope to grow. My familial name, after a profession…
Thread · Getting married, and how a wedding reweaves social fabric · 1 of 5 tweets
@utotranslucence this is much more obvious to me now after my own wedding! fortunately I/we designed it in ways that were really conducive to this before I'd experienced just how powerful it could be (Yatharth was at my wedding retreat when he made this observation)
Retweeted @meansinfinity
May all beings find being-market fit
Retweeted @joriamramos
@hankgreen @rodgab Perhaps this is the new age we're opening: competent will not do anymore, as competent can be created b…
@MattPirkowski what's the connection with Hegel here?
@brimmingvessel got a couple spanks as a kid but my parents felt pretty awkward about them
@zencephalon ahhhh amazing I've been thinking about this sometimes in terms of stacks, since yakshaving can have a bit of a stack-like structure to it Yakstack is a pretty good name too
@zencephalon goals
@rahshank @utotranslucence to some extent it was just the aesthetic we felt drawn to but also...
@acidshill "so you see, you don't understand what you say motivates you!" "whatever man"
@acidshill I do sense there are probably orders of magnitude higher skill levels to reach tho requires subtly tracking the actual edges of resistance & situation-construal probably was simpler back when people's worldviews weren't shattered by atomism etc
@utotranslucence @rahshank yeah indigo has always just kinda been my colour. since I was young, it's been the case both that: - I've insisted I don't have "a favourite colour" - I definitely tended towards purples, particularly ones on the bluer side
@riboprotein @utotranslucence ah lovely! I'd definitely recommend that for anyone whose families are geographically close enough for it to be viable (we got a tiny version in that my mum was visiting Aus last xmas when we told our folks we were engaged, so she got to briefly meet Jess's dad in that context)
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF will do! I'm imagining part of it would also be lensing the light so that you can get it more of it, while not making it so intense that it burninates things maybe lensing wouldn't be needed tho since the inside would otherwise already be totally black
@ladymcscope I don't carry the duck to the bathroom—ideally I come back in between and move it from "bathroom" to "snack" if changing intention (tho I've thought about making a magnetic pocket-sized nowtender or something...)
@my_nm_is_jns what do the "far-leftists" want though? for Israel to be destroyed? two states? one state? like what's the win condition for them?
@metaphorician my impression is they tried a ceasefire some years ago and after some years of pretty shitty waiting what they got was Hamas committing a bunch of horrors? is that impression mistaken?
@metaphorician "end to X, end to Y" — what does that look like? can't merely have "end", must have an actual stable new thing end to apartheid in USA meant mixed schools, mixed theatres, mixed marriages, voting rights for all. what does it mean here? what's the vision?
@ReidGower @utotranslucence thanks man <3
@annafordable @metaphorician hmmm this is a helpful distillation of stuff I've broadly seen elsewhere. I have a sense that Netanyahu's strategy, from the little I know of it, is fomenting a bunch of problems in the way people do when they want to justify violence (Hamas likewise; this is a symbiotic thing)
Retweeted @nickredmark
Thought of the day: hangoutability is precondition for any scene.
Retweeted @nosilverv
What’s funny about “E/Acc” is that it’s nothing but a failure mode already predicted in the sequences. Like, yes, LW is jus…
Retweeted @visakanv
you are creating culture with every action that you take
@sympatheticopp what if I write a whole song about it maleidoscope.bandcamp.com/track/shes-got…
@sympatheticopp (also on reflection I did close w one of the gals mentioned in this song)
@visakanv what came to mind was this
top-notch description of what happened to my experience of meditating. making progress finding quality vibes the last month tho
@prerationalist @mechanical_monk nah we have closed cybernetic control loops, not just forward-chaining
@prerationalist @mechanical_monk I can just ramble, sure; emit words in an associative confabulatory way but I can also say something and *mean it*. things can MATTER to me (and to a dog) but not to an LLM
@visakanv seems notable that these are intended to be america-specific (not to say you can't go ahead and map yourself on them!) part of the puzzle is creating better games to play, which it seems to me we are in the process of doing although it's necessarily subtle & slow
@_brentbaum glad you survived and, given that, glad you had these interesting experiences!
@meekaale @nosilverv that was my first thought lol it's by far the most relevant obsession
@jessi_cata @prerationalist huh, not sure if these are the two words I would pick for these concepts but what you're saying feels like the precise rejoinder needed here and yeah in the context of 4E (or 6E) cogsci it does seem like cognition is a good word for the larger thing
Retweeted @startuployalist
“…when the agent gets where she’s going, she sees that she has what she was after all along.” 💜🕯️ …
Retweeted @utotranslucence
Imagine looking at this chart as an obese person and concluding that what you have is a ‘personal willpower’ problem h…
@utotranslucence I recently read this post by @dschorno which I quite liked, which posits that part of what's going on with obesity is that the mammal hibernation mode aka "torpor" is getting activated (by... vegetable oils & seed oils, it seems?) arcove.substack.com/p/bear-nation
@oldmangrumbling @utotranslucence "calories in, calories out" is never violated, as a law of physics. and, at the same time, one of the negative health impacts bad food can have is confusing your metabolism so that the amount you naturally want to eat is more than you can metabolize arcove.substack.com/p/bear-nation
@capitalist_qol @utotranslucence @ObePraisegod I like your disambiguation of "why people overeat" from "why they're fat"!
@capitalist_qol @utotranslucence @ObePraisegod if: A) there are types of food that (over time) systematically mess up people's metabolisms in a manner similar to thyroid issues B) some people are in contexts where most/all of the food for sale has this effect then talking about metabolism & food environment is relevant
@capitalist_qol @utotranslucence @ObePraisegod you might still argue that the thing for people to do is to eat less food, but if someone has metabolic confusions then they may be constantly getting signals from their body to eat more, and failing to get signals of satiation makes it way harder than it should be
@capitalist_qol @utotranslucence @ObePraisegod you CAN solve that by counting calories in order to maintain a deficit, but that's a pretty odd way to maintain a healthy weight, compared to what any other animal does and to what humans have done for the entirety of history & prehistory
Retweeted @callumflack
C Alexander said “to seek the timeless way we must first know the quality without a name.” 1. “Timeless” indicates its ya…
how to go viral: tweet something that has a clear insight to those open to one but is also easily misinterpretable by people who will quote-dunk and critique it
@utotranslucence not hard to teach it to kids, if you try! (but we currently mostly don't, collectively)
@dschorno @utotranslucence could be good! Freyja figured the stearic acid conclusion was too simple to be adequate; that researchers would have cracked it already but in any case the torpor stuff seems like an obvious explanation for the attractor basin of obesity; good metaphor
@nosilverv huhhhhh implications of this??? seems related to how LLMs aren't actually having sensory perceptions while they're talking the "side cave off of plato's cave" thing
@ESYudkowsky probably not relevant to the specific product you're annoyed at, BUT: I was surprised to discover earlier this year that heat pumps can add heat to a room at a rate of 200W while consuming say 100W of electricity! effectively has an efficiency >100%
Retweeted @JeffLadish
Strong +1 to this plus the point below it. We need people who say exactly what they think, even when it's not politically c…
yo @vlct0rs_tw1tter is "we/acc" a stance of "accelerate the we"? because I could get behind that
if you're worried you don't have time to do it right, you DEFINITELY don't have time to do it wrong
(in particular, I'm finding with sewing that I waste much more time proceeding down a wrong path then having to spend time reversing course, vs to just step back the moment I realize I might be on a wrong course, and cut a new piece or whatever)
this could be like the process that allowed prokaryotes to evolve into eukaroytes (period of low selection pressure that allowed building up a bunch of random extra DNA that turned out to be eventually able to be remixed into something way more awesome than prokaryotes)
"contact" what a beautiful word. "con"="together", "tact"="touch" "contact me" means "togethertouch me"
what the fuck is a Venmo balance even FOR if I can't pay my friends with it?
overheard between young teens on this bus: guy: "someone made fun of me today for having a red phone. is it weird to have a red phone?" gal: "nah it's fine, just get a case for it..." guy: "I was thinking a clear case..."
going to N² in Berkeley this weekend! "The Noosphere at 100: The Future of Human Collective Consciousness" idk how rigorous it'll be but it's got a few names I recognize and I've no doubt I'll meet at least a couple people to commune with ❤️🔥
link to event page looks like in-person registration is closed but you can still attend virtually (idk how good that'll be for actually meeting people tho; the juice is usually in the people not the talks) event.fourwaves.com/n2conference/p…
I think it wants to verify me first, which is currently hard/impossible for reasons but it seems to be letting me withdraw the money and then make a payment from my bank, so there's a clear stench of bullshit here and it doesn't show "venmo balance" as a disabled option
whoa I think this is a bug (probably won't even work) but twitter just offered to let me reply with multiple tweets threaded (ah maybe even related to the extension I have which turns the button back to "Tweet" (among many other things))
@MattPirkowski one of my favorites
whoa, a double-reply
huh it gave an error when I hit send but then did in fact send
context:
Retweeted @julianweisser
The craziest thing is how quickly this will be normalized. In a couple of years kids will be materializing entire world…
@julianweisser such a great point about this being take-for-granted-able it'll be a fascinating start to creating things, and then when you reach the limits of what it can do directly, you start wanting to be able to code yourself or whatever
@uberstuber not MMORPGs tho necessarily, those can readily be obsessive collapsed awareness desperate attempts to make problems go away
"endosymbiont" is a pretty cool word eg mitochondria in cells eg gut bacteria #noosphere100
@QiaochuYuan I switched to BlueSkyGuy last year, a different brand that also sells ballpouch underwear. The pouch is a different shape—I've worn borrowed Saxx a couple times since. I imagine some people would have a preference between them but it's unclear to me. blueskyclothingcousa.com/collections/me…
Retweeted @RichDecibels
extremely prolific insight generator: how does this pattern replicate at different scales? eg what does international wa…
@RichDecibels @deevbrain & @enzikaofash the other day: "Yeah so turns out that Never Split The Difference [book by hostage negotiator] is a great parenting book and How To Talk So Kids Will Listen is a great book for adult relationships." Me: "geopolitics, even"
interesting hybrid digital/physical experience: I'm on my way to the #Noosphere100 conference, a few hours late but in sync already via the livestream 🙃
I'm at the #Noosphere100 conference, come find me to talk about: - trust-dancing & frame interfacing - the paradox of ego / why ego is good - human superorganisms
keywords I imagine people at #Noosphere100 might be searching N2 conference, Human Energy, Third Story, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Berkeley International House, Terrence Deacon, Lawrence Kuhn, The Noosphere at 100: the future of human collective consciousness
.@RobertLawrKuhn at #Noosphere100: "I've always had trouble with non-reductive physicalism" I found Reinventing the Sacred by Stuart Kauffman really helpful for this. Operationalizes emergence and combinatorial explosions to show that causal arrows point both up & down.
@_StevenFan Honestly I'm pretty into forms of business that involve love and expressions thereof!
Replying to @leometric
@leometric @sympatheticopp Yeah this is a sign of resonant mind.
@NormanChella @HephaistosF probably would!
Retweeted @Jeanvaljean689
I love this video What if I told you that all she's really doing, is cultivating a sense of emotional spaciousness, ex…
@cube_flipper @RogerThisdell Hi Roger! What are you hoping for from twitter? And/or what are some questions you've been pondering lately?
@the_wilderless @m_ashcroft Likewise and basically likewise. Have you ever been addicted? My impression is that serious caffeine addiction changes some system dynamics that makes it harder to have a healthy relationship with it for at least years if not indefinitely.
Teilhard: science cannot prove existence of Omega; faith needed Speaker Ilia Delio suggests (my paraphrase) that this may mean it needs to be verified subjectively (through gnosis?) rather than objectively.
@phantom_opus @WillBamberg Yeah it's my current fav shirt. Got it at a thrift store—fortunately for me in terms of price, but unfortunately for you in that I can't link you to where to get one.
Omega point is... oh yeah the thing I'm working on! Definitely subjectively verifiably viable. I'd even say intersubjectively! Can't do it with value-less science tho, indeed.
Ilia Delio has this phrase "Godworld Entanglement" which seems useful for Christian nondualism Not seeing it written about anywhere online yet...
Replying to @not_nothingmuch
@not_nothingmuch Live concert: Gutsy and the Microflora
@Jevan @VinceFHorn This is roughly my position too. Well-articulated.
Retweeted @AskYatharth
90%+ of the times i thought i needed to repair interpersonal connection immediately, i needed to repair inner kid’s connec…
@lisatomic5 Huh interesting. For the last couple years, I've been enjoying cultivating a genuine ambiguity about whether or not I'm autistic, and whether or not I'm adhd. I wonder at what point I might prefer a diagnosis? Or if never.
So far a lot of the #Noosphere100 conference is (somewhat unsurprisingly in context) sort of the Teilhard de Chardin fanclub meeting. And I'm... remarkably okay with this! It's a resonant worldview, looking at Qs I'm very interested in.
@this_is_silvia I had a new idea yesterday for a mental move that I'd love to see you illustrate. Basically getting crazy superegos to fuck off so your id can relax. There's a version in this post but I can make a more evocative version. malcolmocean.com/2023/07/supere…
@harry_taussig Down to jam about this. I have thoughts, from my own rite of passage that was very well-intentioned and in some ways well-designed but ultimately kind of empty and fake, with certain messages implied that my mentors didn't consciously intend (eg "girl as reward for quest")
@browserdotsys @mbateman has a great tweet about how part of what's fucked up about most schools is that they force practice at the wrong times but then *don't* allow practice when the student has an intrinsic motivation to really hone something
@AskYatharth I've been exploring something similar, which looks a bit like sitting down and feeling into what I want to do, which could be relaxing/nothing, but without any sense of imposition. Kind of giving myself the opportunity to find out if I want to let go.
@madhu___s Poast sample poems! Tease us!
@mbateman Hate isn't necessarily moral... Might be more of just an immature "f off mom & dad! you don't understand me!" but on a collective scale
Retweeted @TheBrometheus
Everyone wants to go back in time and kill Hitler as a baby but no one wants to go back and raise him to be a person ful…
Retweeted @MattPirkowski
Even the memes are fracturing…
I forgot how bad conferences are. #Noosphere100 has only 15min breaks and the rest is lectures w tiny Q&A. Such an embarrassingly low level of sophistication of collective consciousness for a conference that is ABOUT collective consciousness.
Just talked to someone who was on the sidelines of the planning, who said that at least _some_ aspects I think are poorly designed (eg lack of experiential elements) are more due to attempting to gain scientific legitimacy for studying the Noosphere & EvConch as such
"Pragmatic Mystical Dualism" is what Jaron Lanier calls his approach to consciousness
"[generative AI] [at present] is a fill-in-the-gaps kind of creativity, not an expansive kind of creativity" — Jaron Lanier
the claim that someone's god is omnipotent is the obvious natural outcome of religious dick-measuring contests
someone should run some interdisciplinary conferences with specific but really open-ended themes, to convene people together from different fields eg Fractals eg Resonance eg Power
Replying to @abhayance
@abhayance What's next:
@DAtD_life Would also be super neat to have a conference on God where only like 10% of the people attending are theologians. Get the physicists' takes, and the game theorists' takes, and the psychedelic scientists' takes.
@JasonBoudreaul5 Bigger than others? yes, absolutely. Infinitely big? no.
@QiaochuYuan Yeah I'm plotting showing up tomorrow with a big sign that says Hallway Track and hang out in the hallway. (Plus another sign for what I want to talk about, and hmmm maybe materials for others to make their own signs.)
🫳 🫴
As a kid, my sisters and I quickly got over missing out due to our house having no TV, as we realized that it made us way more creative, and we figured we'd raise our own kids the same way. But now, the toys are the tools and there's no way to simply "not own a TV"
@brimmingvessel That'd be lovely! Scroll past today if you want something other than the conference I was at haha
ugh I can't post a top-level tweet from a tweet permalink now (on mobile). they changed the bottom-right button so it makes a reply instead
the difference between praise and celebration is subtle but real with praise, you're the authority on the behavior having been good with celebration, you're participating in the recognition by the other being that what they did WORKED
Replying to @quotidiania
@quotidiania sus
Replying to @quotidiania
@quotidiania What's "it's giving"?
@soundrotator this is one of the weirder times I have had to tap the sign
Retweeted @relic_radiation
I thought this meme format was paradoxical until I spent more time in the woods and experienced it as a foundational…
@relic_radiation evolution is something it took us a long time (and a lot of careful thinking) to properly notice, but having noticed it you can see it EVERYWHERE
"...what did we learn today?" "...the same thing we learn every night pinky: things work better when we shut the fuck up and listen"
Retweeted @Morphenius
I keep thinking about gods overthrowing giants. Olympians vs. Titans. Aesir vs. Jötnar. And how this relates to Abrahamic…
Retweeted @Morphenius
Coming to wonder if "pain of separation from the Divine" is a psyop. You can't separate. So what hurts? THINKING you're se…
Retweeted @visakanv
i’ve often been on the receiving end of questions like “why do you take twitter so seriously” and i get the sense that people…
if you tell me you've become a Christian because its practices engage you and transform you and help you live well, I'm like "fyeah!" if you tell me you've become a Christian because you realized it's propositionally true, uhh wat lol
This tweet brought to you by this article, which seems much more the former, at least in vibe (tho it's probably a lil ambiguous) unherd.com/2023/11/why-i-…
@JakeOrthwein Hits my psy-op defense system tbh. "Do as I say and you will reap tremendous rewards in a way I can't prove at the outset or guarantee." Bad logic to follow even if true.
@Daniel86Cycles "believe" and "propositionally true" aren't inherently the same Christianity didn't get ultra-propositional until some aristotle mashups centuries after Nicene creed (according to Vervaeke)
@Daniel86Cycles I have a sense that original statements of "I believe in God" may have been in some ways (tho not all) more like "I believe in you"—it's relational
@Daniel86Cycles "believe that" and "believe in" are different what even IS the proposition being affirmed by the first line of the nicene creed? to modern ears it's implied that it's "I believe THAT the one god is the maker of everything" but that's not what it says!
actually "believe" and "propositionally true" aren't AT ALL the same "propositionally true" is about logic, where belief & perspective is irrelevant—in this frame, it follows from X that Y "believe" is about a relational perspective, of living in a world shaped by a frame/story
etymology of "believe" is "to have faith or confidence [in a person]" perhaps literally "to hold dear" — the L & V are the same as the ones in "love"
Retweeted @the_wilderless
IN THIS HOUSE WE BELIEVE: MY EXPERIENCE IS A REASONABLE REFERENCE I MAKE CORRECT ASSESSMENTS OF THE WORLD I AM GOOD…
"believe", even when it's dressed up as "believe that" not "believe in" seems always still more about loyalty and social in/outgroups the Nicene creed is not a set of axioms nor observations it's essentially a pledge of allegiance. so is this:
@Daniel86Cycles can you unpack this a bit?
@nickredmark I take seriously the need for interpreting Jesus but it's not clear to me how much of that is best done propositionally (and my impression is that most of it was not particularly propositional in the way we understand it now, for a long time)
type of guy where you're entirely unsurprised he remembers your name at a conference after only a short convo 2 days ago
Retweeted @JakeOrthwein
Modernity tends to collapse “existential orientations” into propositional truth claims. “Faith,” for example, goes from…
@juliangough here's a couple threads (mine and Taylor's) about Self-Organized Criticality almost certainly relevant to your Evolving Universes theory
@RomeoStevens76 @juliangough this vid is a great intro to the god/gametheory stuff
a 6yo in a car: "everybody's rude!" "hm?" "I wave to them and they don't wave back! they're rude!" (he waves at a car zooming past) "see? they didn't wave back! so rude 🙄"
a 6yo at a restaurant with a bunch of tables pushed together: "there's so much of us!" I like to think that this was not a grammatical error but him speaking on behalf of the collective self
@CalebFiggers sure but under those conditions everything is true
Retweeted @CalebFiggers
A startling number of things work on a curve with this shape
@CalebFiggers hmmm interesting. what do you make of people who experience the world as revolving around some different content being propositionally true—that contradicts yours?
@CalebFiggers I want to understand more what your perspective is here, what you're getting at—esp since you follow me and we have some connections, you're not just a random passerby commenting I'm pretty keen on rederiving god, unclear on how salvageable xianity is, & curious to synthesize
@william_ivanhoe huh, as in "if you have confidence in this, go for it"
there's no such thing as a lack, period
having said that, I am making a subtle error here with my argument from etymology, in that the nicene creed wasn't composed in english! it was composed in latin! so the question isn't what "believe" used to mean, it's what "credo" used to mean! seems maybe it did include this?
that doesn't at all negate the point about the SPEECH ACT being a pledge of allegiance though (or at best a possibly-self-fulfillingly-true keynesian beauty contest vote of confidence) —with the Credo and with pretty much any "I believe" / "we believe" statement.
@Daniel86Cycles hmmmmmmm, indeed. wikipedia seems to agree with you. though I still sense there's something very different about how we relate to propositional facts and how people used to. and still something weird about "belief"
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF yeah okay fair. but I know of at least a few cases that were nothing remotely like that and it's to them that I say the "uhh wat lol"
@ErgoEcho true but it's at least directly engaging with the question of impacts and memetic fitness though, rather than being like "mysteriously I now have propositional beliefs I didn't have" when neither argument nor gnosis can explain it but your strategic/incentive landscape can
Jesus articulating the meta-protocol (Matthew 5:43-48)
Replying to @realpotofgreed
@realpotofgreed agreed; I would have cited Matthew 5:43-48 which seems to me to be explicitly highlighting Jesus as teaching not "one new specific dogma/culture" but an approach to pluralism, aka the meta-protocol
@realpotofgreed like there are structural differences between religions that make some more peaceful than others christianity's violence, afaicr, seems like mostly a perversion due to the remix with roman culture and later degradation, not expressly endorsed by Jesus himself
question for anyone who refers to God or Jesus with a capitalized He: if you're referring to yourself and God or yourself and Jesus, do you use a capital We? (feel free to opine if you don't "He" too!)
since apparently I'm tweeting about christianity I feel it's a good time to mention that my relationship to Jesus is that We're colleagues in nurturing the grand unfolding, working in a similar department
@edsaperia hmmm... I unsubscribed at the $20/mo price or whatever it is since I wasn't using it enough to justify, tho I use GPT in my IDE (@Cursor_AI) via API token would thus use way more at 1¢/message... and somewhat more at 10¢/message. $1 I would use maybe as much as now
Jane Jacobs would like a word
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF ah, yup, I can imagine that scene this is great though. I enjoy your renditions of Jesus's viewpoint and find them helpful
huh, this helps highlight part of where I'm trying to write a patch for Jesus's commit it seems to me that while martrydom did an epic restructuring of moral reality... for the next phase we need something more like enlightened selfishness twitter.com/HephaistosF/st…
ELI5: wtf does it even MEAN for a non-profit to have a for-profit subsidiary? like what's the deal with that?
@eshear gym-as-church-and-community?! 👀 @utotranslucence has been longing for this for months
@connerdelights @nickcammarata here's another take on "how do I feel about it now" if you're curious malcolmocean.com/2023/07/supere…
Retweeted @reasonisfun
When you’re finding out about the world, there’s typically one way things are. There’s a single right answer to “1+1 = ?”.…
if I wanted GPT's answer I would have asked it, not twitter
@my_nm_is_jns that answer is neither a proper ELI5 nor is it useful either condition would have sufficed for it to be a good reply, but uhhhh
@jackinlondon aha! okay, fascinating. that does answer the basic "what's the deal?" question I was wondering about like clearly there had to still be some constraint, otherwise it wouldn't be a subsid
Retweeted @strangestloop
i try to see all interpersonal situations from the other person's perspective
@meekaale that sounds like it's just non-profit on net though. the bookstore is a business, sure, but the bookstore could also just be run by the nonprofit directly without setting up a for-profit subsidiary, right? so aside from accounting clarity, what's the difference?
Replying to @eigenrobot
@eigenrobot Bad on purpose to make you dunk
@eigenrobot Which I forgive since I am sympathetic to the message and I imagine you are too, so it's not like you're giving free advertising to a view you which would go away
Retweeted @jeremyphoward
Both OpenAI (through "Profit Participation Units") and Anthropic offer compensation that's primarily based on profitabil…
@eshear @OpenAI Congrats — I admire the clarity with which you're thinking and communicating about this here. When I heard the news I thought of your son and imagined you thought a lot about him too! I see it as a good sign for all that you name your family as involved in the choice.
Relevant
@AgotaDubi @m_ashcroft Yeah it keeps pinging me a bit too. Appreciating hearing how the diamond approach fits in, since I've been enjoying Facets of Unity by Almaas
@VividVoid_ yeah @meekaale suggested I patch the wholes in my mind
I think of this idea again every year or so, and I still think it'd be really cool you could do a sort of mechanical sketch of it by just asking "for a given point on the map, where is the nearest high density area?" maybe do total city pop/distance
like if you're 30 minutes from a 300,000-person city in one direction, but 90min from a 10M-person city in the other direction, the larger/latter would dominate but if you're 5h from a 2M-person city, the smaller one would. probably a rough (maybe nonlinear) equation for this
Retweeted @jasoncbenn
The only question that matters: how does this affect the probability of broadly beneficial AGI? Two markets that roughly c…
Retweeted @Liv_Boeree
For the love of god will someone on the inside just tell us what motivated the initial firing?! This is turning into the…
@primalpoly @sama @OpenAI yeah companies/orgs seeking to continue their own existence heedless of other values is a large unaligned intelligent agent (not AI but similar issues). the principles of orthogonality & convergent instrumental goals in action!
Retweeted @primalpoly
@sama We wish your top priority was not imposing extinction risks on humanity. If @OpenAI 'thrives' in a way that increase…
@alexandrosM any updates on the status of this stuff 8mo later? has it gotten better/worse?
@ytune_ @eshear @OpenAI I know Emmett personally (though not well) and my reading of his post here is in light of a long & deep conversation we had back when he was still CEO of Twitch, and I stand by my response.
Thread · Slowing down AI development without pausing or degrowth · 4 of 7 tweets
there is no reason except Moloch that we can't slow the fuck down do you want to be Moloch's bitch? or do you want to hold your head high and say "if I don't do it, maybe someone else will, but it won't be me"
some people say "delaying AGI one day means more people dying" and that is TRUE *iff* we get it right but cringily dumb if we get it wrong. and rushing means mistakes
and as betterwithout.ai points out, we might just destabilize our society in the meantime by turning over too many things to algos we don't understand that are optimizing for profits, nevermind eventual AGI
I'm making a conservative case here, but I'm NOT saying stop, pause, or go backwards. I'm saying slow down. breathe. sit at the ocean's shore for an hour and watch the tide move.
Replying to @ChasingMyself
@ChasingMyself huh, @AndrewCutler13 I'm curious what you make of this thread. might explain the origins of some of the overhang that allowed the recursive leap into self-consciousness
Replying to @empireenjoyer10
@empireenjoyer10 @elonmusk @ilyasut arguably what makes humans human is perspective-taking: our ability to imagine what the world is like for another person, or an animal this isn't exactly empathy, but it's very related. twitter.com/ChasingMyself/…
@primalpoly @sama @OpenAI organizations don't inherently matter. they can dissolve if they don't serve the consciousnesses that inhabit them (eg employees) and the consciousnesses that co-create the larger environment in which they exist (the rest of us) of course, much conflict ensues about all this
@visakanv huh, indeed metaphors of seduction are often used! ...the temptations of the devil / satan ...here in Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism as coming from the ego @Morphenius and I are concluding that this is all part of a psy-op / propaganda from Big Superego
@visakanv @Morphenius sort of weird timing too since I was just watching this scene elon posted, where the guy renounces the works & temptations of satan
Replying to @GradualReform
@GradualReform (I agree the best way out is up, but not in a panicked rush)
Replying to @GradualReform
@GradualReform moloch never whispers "slow down". have you met moloch? slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/med…
@cptnjamescook lol "no u" doesn't work here—that's not moloch's deal. if you want to play, you'll have to accuse me of working on behalf of a different beast. and I'm open to that conversation!
Replying to @GradualReform
@GradualReform funny comic but that's still not the sort of thing Moloch says. do you want to have a real conversation about this? your bio says "gradual reform" and "careful accelerationist". I resonate with those! they feel much like what I'm trying to advocate for here.
@GradualReform like it's not so much that I think slowness is good for its own sake, but that currently society is kinda running around flailing and that's making it impossible to think clearly and be suitably careful
Replying to @GradualReform
@GradualReform I can sorta squint and see race-to-the-bottom / "if I don't do it someone else will" in what you're describing, but they feel to me like a different fundamental energy can you make the link more clear?
Replying to @GradualReform
@GradualReform oh, sorry! I was NOT intending to say "we should regulate". I was attempting to say eg "OpenAI is not a shareholder-owned company and has no obligation to turn a profit this year, and individual AI researchers are under no obligation to build something that terrifies them."
Replying to @GradualReform
@GradualReform these are both threats as far as I can tell, as is civ collapse via algo destabilization or simply change-too-fast-to-metabolize-without-psychosis I don't follow EY's views on everything, but I understand his arguments and don't have good counters what constraints are missing?
Replying to @GradualReform
@GradualReform the events of this past weekend don't seem like flailing to you? like I agree it's bustly but my sense is that it's bustly in part in the same way as corporate competition often is when it results in cancerous (not caring for one's environment) behavior. ie Moloch
Replying to @GradualReform
@GradualReform this is helpful, thanks. seems like potentially a good path. do you have sources on the "strategically pushing to get a bit further before things get locked down?" and why that's good from a human survival and thrival perspective?
Replying to @GradualReform
@GradualReform computation constraints, yeah what about... there are various takeoff scenarios that don't involve nanotech but do involve goodharting on assigned tasks (with expected-to-be-spent compute, not suspicious extra compute) some variations here: alignmentforum.org/posts/LpM3EAak…
@adcock_brett @ShunbaoChen somehow the US & USSR scaled back their nuclear arsenals arms races aren't inevitable unless you treat them as such (and it's not even clear that that's the right metaphor here)
Replying to @einarvollset
@einarvollset @paulg @_jacksmith true in general but sometimes what appears to be a random risk to one party is actually completely overdeterminedly controlled by another it seems possible here, given what we've now seen, that Sam had enough loyalty to guarantee a win, and people didn't realize that
@einarvollset @paulg @_jacksmith see also the iocane powder scene from the princess bride youtube.com/watch?v=9s0UUR…
@yishan yeah this is part of what I was trying to get at with this post
Thread · Slowing down AI development without pausing or degrowth · 2 of 7 tweets
short thread that makes my point better than I did
"too fast" means your OODA loop is fucked
Replying to @GradualReform
@GradualReform doesn't necessarily have to be hiring. could just be whipping into a panic
Retweeted @NikSamoylov
What is protecting us against AI doom in the short run? ❌ Corporate governance at AI labs (ineffectual) ❌ Laws and treati…
meanwhile twitter seems to be putting me in a stupid rush today (it often does this) so I am signing off for some deep breaths and quiet ecstasy
@TheAnnaGat Click thru for alternative proposal of "traumatized masculinity" (since twitter doesn't now show quote tweets in full)
Holy shit this book is nearly a century old and has one of the most based tables of contents I've ever seen! twitter.com/selentelechia/…
"the intimate association of minds is not altogether without shock and pain to the individual ego" fuck, I already felt drawn to reading this book but this quote is right at the core of some of my research twitter.com/selentelechia/…
iykyk
@4confusedemoji @QiaochuYuan My guess is that some of them need some imaginal work at the level of attachment repair (eg Ideal Parent Figure protocol) and that anything that doesn't touch their infant layer eventually falls off, but that it is indeed possible to heal that inner layer.
@4confusedemoji @QiaochuYuan Yeah not everybody will trust you (or in some cases anyone at all) with that intimacy, and that's okay. Vital to respect their trust-sense. That's part of the meeting it where it lives, in a sense. But it can sometimes be more healing when *less* intense.
@4confusedemoji @QiaochuYuan I broadly think it's a human birthright and the sort of thing that healthy human beings would be experiencing at least to some degree or at some distance, but so is singing and dancing and the reality is that lots of people aren't remotely ready to do that either.
@4confusedemoji @QiaochuYuan Soul-sync, even ephemerally with a kind stranger, is just also a risky thing to do, for various reasons, so it makes sense people are guarded towards it.
@CalebFiggers That's a decent paraphrase, yeah. And it creates a sort of circular argument of where such priors or willingness to open to that frame (and maybe even drop other frames) comes from.
@train_of_oughts Say more about what this is bringing up for you? I have a bunch of thoughts about ego boundaries in and in relation to children, but I'm not quite sure where you're starting from.
I wanted to QT this in someone's replies recently but couldn't find it. Then just found it by accident. Maybe it was one of @AskYatharth's tweets?
@Paul_Melman It is! And a holy quest is worthy of being done right, which is to say reflectively rather than reactively.
@aleksil79 That seems likely. I'm not satisfied with it either but it's generating some good dialogue and is also helping me notice my own hypocrisy (how much I'm still rushing constantly)
Replying to @hydmisun
@hydmisun There's no reason anything worth happening couldn't happen tomorrow or in a week, after people have time to reflect. A feeling of needing to act quickly is very often a sign that someone is narrowing your options for their own benefit. Salespeople do this constantly.
@QiaochuYuan Even worse, that line could well be followed by "(spoiler: it worked, better than almost anyone could have imagined)"
@slimepriestess @QiaochuYuan knowing him somewhat personally, he really doesn't vibe that way he has the energy of someone grudgingly doing something they feel needs to be done but they wish someone else would take care of instead
@slimepriestess @QiaochuYuan He does have some sort of graspiness towards expressing a ton of arrogance and contempt tho, which does feel relevant. but I feel that more in his relationship with readers than with the AI stuff specifically. maybe a need to be "guy who sees things others don't"?
@train_of_oughts @QiaochuYuan Yeah bioemotive is great for this. They've got some workshops/courses online that you can try out. bioemotiveframework.com
@QiaochuYuan My guess is like 30-40mins for the really loud part, based on my memory of overhearing the sounds from the next room over. But makes sense it would have seemed longer from up close, and I'm not certain it wasn't.
Retweeted @MattPirkowski
The thing about “degrowth” is that it’s actually just an arc toward death. And while its most eloquent advocates make i…
Thread · Slowing down AI development without pausing or degrowth · 1 of 7 tweets
To be clear, I'm not arguing for degrowth which is one of the stupidest and most unholy ideas of all time. There's a kind of forward pace that breathes, that retains awareness and poise, rather than rushing headlong foolishly. That is the way.
@slimepriestess Hmm, trying to see what you're getting at here. I agree that EY doesn't seem at all to be doing the "let the soft animal of your body love what it loves" thing...
@slimepriestess ...nor pursuing safety the way an animal would, in a sense. But animals being animals are uhh not safe from people being people. (In your sense of the word).
Retweeted @visakanv
if you want to solve for alignment in the world it might be worth first being internally aligned yourself
Replying to @12leavesleft
@12leavesleft @robbensinger I think you mean "now that we are under a lot of pressure to believe that it could be possible to solve it in a couple years..."
@robbensinger Appreciating you highlighting this and asking about it. I have similar concerns.
Retweeted @TylerAlterman
IMO if safetyists want to influence culture, they’d do well to adopt an inspiring positive vision, like “hum/acc” who (e…
@phantom_opus @chaosprime @TylerAlterman @qephatziel @bat1441 Yeah I was thinking love/acc. agape/acc? Nurturing creative love. Idk if I'd myself sign off on an acc, even for something great, as it still has some rushing vibes. But if something's gotta acc, should be what matters, not just e/effective
@TylerAlterman Ahh yep, that's kinda what's been missing the whole time. Towardsness motivation! malcolmocean.com/2022/02/toward…
@VividVoid_ @brimmingvessel you were asking about this
Retweeted @MJPiercello
Thought experiment time. Do nothing, and society falls into totalitarianism. (Like gravity in physics, this is part of hu…
@MJPiercello Whoa, trippy reframe, nice!
@brimmingvessel Supposedly a homeopathic doctor cured my asthma when I was young, but I believe some people just grow out of that? My mom and grandmother were quite into it. I liked getting to talk in depth about weird subtle symptoms and have them taken seriously. And the sugar pills 😋
@brimmingvessel I quit at 15: - I had a symptom during the visit - he offered to perform a test - I asked what would happen if it worked - he said it'd go away within 15mins - I said "that's what it usually does tho, so it could just be a coincidence" - he said "in my biz, no such thing" = BS.
@brimmingvessel The ostensible mechanism of change of much of homeopathy is clearly bullshit. But it does work for some. I like to think of it as well-optimized placebo effect but as a scientist you can probably get better results for yourself with pills labeled "placebo" (friends have done it!)
@brimmingvessel If you want the benefits of homeopathy for free without bullshit, I'd suggest: 1. journal or write or read about the symptom and related bodily systems 2. pray for the system to heal 3. then ritualistically take a placebo pill that you imbue with that intention
Retweeted @Malcolm_Ocean
@brimmingvessel If you want the benefits of homeopathy for free without bullshit, I'd suggest: 1. journal or write or re…
@meditationstuff This article has some useful trailheads tho its author (@dschorno recently said he wanted to rewrite it) arcove.substack.com/p/bear-nation
@EthanReeder SMV points at some real dynamics around low-pressure and high-pressure regions in dating space but the "markets" are highly illiquid and if you mate for life you only need to make one sale ever, to someone whose preferences will necessarily value you extraordinarily highly
@EthanReeder So it's a meh-taphor I think most of it can be reduced to the fact that it's very important that neither person in the relationship feel like they're settling (where settling is being with someone when a big part of you thinks "I could do better")
@EthanReeder Put in a positive light, in a good match, BOTH people in the partnership feel like "wow you're such a good fit for me, I'm so lucky to have found you!" (Lucky to have *found* allows for someone to be unluckily ugly, but nonetheless find a match who is prettier than they'd hoped)
@EthanReeder I broadly think SMV as a meme tends to be associated with janky orientations to relationships—it suggests fungibility when in fact this is the least fungible sort of matching problem ever. And increasingly so to the extent you want soul intimacy as part of it.
An epic (in the Gilgamesh sense) thread that eventually makes its way to #TweetsAboutThisTrend (OpenAI) I hope people can read it with an eye towards system dynamics rather than blame & judgment. I know many of the ppl involved, & saw them doing their best to care for the world.
Retweeted @aleksil79
you can only have theories of mind compatible with your own. if someone speaks from your blind spot you will inevitably misc…
Replying to @RichDecibels
@RichDecibels In other words, as @metaLulie recently put it, try things and see what works!
@default_friend PO: beyond yes and no by Edward de Bono
@benlandautaylor Hmmm... that's what morality is at kegan 2. Alfie Kohn has a great quip in one of his talks about how if you raise your kids not to rob banks but the only reason they don't is that they don't want to go to jail, you haven't raised moral kids at all.
@tasshinfogleman ooooh it's tempting.
Retweeted @tasshinfogleman
which of you upright, agentic, badass lads and lasses want to pair off and co-author a book about something cool toget…
@QiaochuYuan once again admiring your incredible candor one of the interesting things for me here is watching where our trains of thought diverge and converge
Retweeted @OrphicCapital
once again, western civ's and american capitalism's greatest victory is that the battleground for this war is twitter an…
@apexlearn_org @mbateman @Gena_I_Gorlin
Retweeted @robbensinger
This has been a hectic, low-sleep weekend, and last night was super rough for me for some reason. It helped viscerally re…
@robbensinger Thanks, you're helping cue me to log off of twitter on my phone and finally go to bed, which I've been thinking for 2-3h I will do any minute.
what happens to the assets of a nonprofit when it closes?
Vervaeke (aftmc ep31) deduces that general intelligence is relevance realization but since even very basic animals do relevance realization, this implies that the distinguishing quality of humans is something else altogether. meaning? memetics?
@visakanv every act of speech is a speech act
Retweeted @visakanv
a corollary to "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is that a skilled beholder who communicates what he sees can single-han…
Retweeted @QiaochuYuan
[visa voice] many people are more interesting than they think they are, to be a good writer from there also involves getti…
business idea: 1. person inputs which part(s) of their body they want to work 2. LLM converts that to a bespoke yoga/physio sequence 3. that sequence is used to play a series of videos guiding each movement
"You Can Be Good Without God" when I was like 14 I came home from church concluding I could make a better religion that just focused on Good, not God but I was completely subject to my concept of what goodness was, rather than self-transcending
have you run your demons through their morning exorcise routine today?
@ChanningAllen yeah SooS is awesome, defs one of my linchpin pieces in grokking cultural evolution if you're into this stuff, you might really dig David Deutsch's The Beginning of Infinity (amzn.to/47uSGDb) which talks about memetic mechanisms & attractors
@cptnjamescook oooh yeah, that is another good question one possibility is that some of what we're calling "the unconscious" (especially on a collective scale) is actually also kind of conscious, we just don't recognize it as such 🤔🤯🤨
WAAIT hang on a sec, "general intelligence" here is maybe different from GI in the context of AGI? it's more like g-factor. or like. it's different from David Deutsch's concept of "Universal Explainer", which seemed to me to map onto General Intelligence a bit.
Retweeted @the_transit_guy
This would literally destroy the North American airline industry. Build the loop.
listened to some episode of vervaeke (around ep20) and he says that it goes all the way back to Luther and the protestant reformation (although it seems to have fallen out of the foreground in progressive denominations now)
Thread · The "bad is good, actually" psy-op and its religious roots · 1 of 14 tweets
the worst psy-op of all time comes in many forms but reduces to "bad is good, actually"
@the_wilderless @QiaochuYuan yeah it's everywhere because of the worst psy-op
Thread · The "bad is good, actually" psy-op and its religious roots · 1 of 14 tweets
once you've admitted 0=1 into your value system, you can use that to prove all sorts of ridiculousness in math: 0+1=1+1 ➡️ 1 = 2 10¹=10² ➡️ 10 = 100 i¹=i² ➡️ i = -1 in values: 😳 suffering is pleasure, actually 🚩 cruelty is love, actually ☝️ bullshit is true, actually
the part about diverse experiences seems apt but organisms grow best with a bit more choice in which diverse experiences they encounter
gradually untangling myself from performative introspection over the past few years
Thread · The "bad is good, actually" psy-op and its religious roots · 2 of 14 tweets
there's one version of this that has its roots in certain strains of christianity, maybe particularly calvinism but I recently heard that it goes all the way back to Luther and the protestant reformation
but of course part of this goes to the root of christianity as a shift from 🔴 good vs bad — power is good, weakness sucks ("might makes right") to 🔵 good vs evil — law & love is good, selfishness sucks (righteousness)
a godless universe could exist in principle but it isn't very likely to have evolved and if it did evolve it wouldn't develop life anyway sent tweet
wow I literally JUST realized that the custom twitter-DM reacji aren't random they're the last 6 emoji that I've tweeted. I thought they just changed randomly to encourage people to fuck around with different reacji probably because tweeting and DMing are usually separate for me
@meekaale oooh say more?
@meekaale and what was going on with christianity and pleasure for the first millenium? (before Aquinas et al) I have the impression that Augustine was pretty "omg what a sinner am I keep sinning jfc" and Luther resonated with that a lot?
@visakanv can make a lot of money selling people a small solution the size of a big solution
one principle I appear to have at this point is that if you feel you deserve an apology then... you do. you may not deserve it according to the social power graph and the other person's ability to give it to you, but you don't need to pretend to yourself that you don't want it
it's hard to articulate this precisely impossible, perhaps, to articulate it perfectly. put another way: you don't have to feel reconciled if you don't feel reconciled!
corollary: nobody else has to give you an apology they can't give you freely (on the contrary, it would be fake if they did) but even if they tell you you don't deserve it, that doesn't mean you don't
@QiaochuYuan I've been saying it for awhile and it just suddenly occurred to me I hadn't actually tweeted it
@RichDecibels outrageous
@RichDecibels this has an issue tho in that people can fake offendedness and you/others may not trust that their seeming offended isn't actually just a power play rather than something that bothered them at their soul or whatever (your principle could easily be weaponized in this way)
@RichDecibels but my principle has the same issue (and this is why I am NOT saying that someone can just demand an apology) but in both cases there's a subjective truth to be found, as the offended person or the person who wants an apology
@__drewface yeah, proper pluralism is more subtle than "everything is good, to someone" not everything that is good to you is good to everyone but something being good for someone else DOES NOT mean it's good for you. that doesn't follow at all. fish need water. birds need sky.
@__drewface but some things are just actually bad to take an extreme example, nuclear explosions aren't a good place for any kind of life to live sort of related to how
avoid gaslighting people who say things that contradict your worldview with this one weird trick: "that may be so, but I don't care"
@RichDecibels oooooh that is good actually there's a higher-level principle here something like "you can avoid gaslighting people by saying 'what you say is true but idgaf'"
@meditationstuff curious what you make of this!
☝️ this is a corollary of this 👇
Replying to @abhayance
@abhayance yeah, depends on the situation also there are times when the best way to actually say "that may be so, but I don't care" is just "sure" or "whatever" or "good point"
Retweeted @dkazand
just realized that dancing is *essential* to health (at the same level as physical exercise) allows you to playfully (semi-ra…
Replying to @abhayance
@abhayance @AskYatharth @visakanv hm hm hm this is percolating for me taking this seriously
@RuxandraTeslo @PradyuPrasad I have a few links here that might interest people looking at invariances of biology that are rederivable from first principles or independently-of-earth's-history
this take on stockholm syndrome (which is rare and maybe confused) suggests that if empathetic behaviors are showing up in released hostages, empathetic behavior may have been present in captors stadafa.com/2020/12/stockh…
more than that we can't really know. we can't know it for certain, and its presence or absence doesn't strongly imply anything else about anyone
@tasshinfogleman important to separate this from the law of the church
I rated a particular "this video is fake" community note highly because not only did it give a source it also pointed out a clue *in the video* that could be used to help notice that it is fake.
Thread · The "bad is good, actually" psy-op and its religious roots · 1 of 14 tweets
and Nietzsche framed this in terms of master morality & slave morality (my fav source on this is this great long vid) youtu.be/aPhrTOg1RUk
@itzamepacifico you might like this tweet
Thread · The "bad is good, actually" psy-op and its religious roots · 2 of 14 tweets
and aspects of this are a psy-op BUT! the psy-op works in part because there's a way in which it IS god's will to shift from pure egocentric conquering into higher-order social systems (much as it is/was god's will to form planets, life, multicel life.,)
and then there's a sense in which aligning with god's will, the dao, the meta-protocol, the upward spiral... creates harmony and flow but don't confuse that for the will of the church or whatever (and the church would love to have you confuse those)
huh, "obey" has its roots in "listen". that's almost gaslighting right there in the etymology: "you aren't listening to me because if you were you'd be obeying me"
probably not a thing you've had to deal with much Visa, but for those of us who've been in intense in-person communities involving taking thinking/mindset etc seriously (I've had 3!) the social pressures often end up permeating into introspection
Thread · The "bad is good, actually" psy-op and its religious roots · 2 of 14 tweets
and in particular, @Morphenius and I recently noticed that a particularly pernicious flavor of psyop involves giving people attachment trauma and then calling disobedience from authority "disobedience of god" and then saying "that pain is sep from god"
@Morphenius he and I are still early stages of workshopping these ideas—more to come! this other tweet is definitely relevant, though might need revising (maybe because "separate from god/universe" is actually an illusion/psyop)
@QiaochuYuan I've figured it out I think doesn't fit in the margins but I'll write it up sooner or later
this is a mashup of: — @juliangough's Evolving Universe theory — Stuart Kauffman's Reinventing the Sacred — @RomeoStevens76's Supercooperation Clusters concept (and probably implicitly many other things)
no preferences are shallow because nothing is separate from anything else
@QiaochuYuan ugh you have recommended them before but unfortunately amazon sent me a paper copy that had like 5pt font and it was completely impossible to read and then I was travelling, so I still haven't gotten around to it. but this is very exciting!
@QiaochuYuan @Morphenius @JakeOrthwein yo @JakeOrthwein me & @Morphenius are planning to record a call at 3:30pm pacific on tuesday about this stuff, want to join? (DM me if so—I am very bad at twitter notifications)
@lisatomic5 DAOs are waiting for better social tech some of which can get baked into the protocol level like pol.is by @colinmegill some of which will be cultural, on the meta-protocol level
I followed an account called @HelpfulNotes, and while it's been kinda useful for helping me understand what's going on with the Community Notes feature, it unfortunately is nonetheless a source of a lot of bullshit in my timeline
9 times out of 10, not seeing a tweet at all is uhhh... more helpful than seeing the tweet plus a correction/context piece it would be nice to follow an account that was more like *interesting* community notes or *insightful* ones, but this ain't that
what people get wrong with hypotheticals is they accept not just the premise but ALSO the frame/question. genre-savviness fail eg me: if I turned into a worm, would you still love me? Jess: I mean yes but that'd mean taking on a quest to find the witch & get her to turn you back
@krishnanrohit there are more dimensions to caring for the environment than caring for say greenhouse grass emissions some attempts to manage forests too much is maybe part of why we've had such bad fires even? it does make for a funny headline tho 😂
@nosilverv if you wanna grok dependent co-arising, I recommend reading Mutual Causality in Buddhism and General Systems Theory by Joanna Macy
"I can tell for myself" 🪐 an attempt to explain gnosis in everyday language malcolmocean.com/2023/11/i-can-…
why enneagram is real (and astrology is fake)
a lot of things are like this one would never recommend attempting to go through them but having them in your past is awesome
@himbodhisattva @QiaochuYuan (western) christmas is uk coded
Thread · The "bad is good, actually" psy-op and its religious roots · 1 of 14 tweets
@Morphenius stepping back from the "this childhood pain you experienced because adults were cruel to you is actually a sign you're disconnected from god" psyop to the original topic of the bad=good psyop QC has a great thread on this here:
@drethelin @atroyn "not if it leads to results like this", is my guess but also the game of "get on board" and the game of "be useful on board" are completely different games whereas football has exactly the same rules in the qualifiers vs during the superbowl
Retweeted @eigenrobot
i was talking with bosco about this earlier it feels like a core issue to me rationalism, construed somewhat broadly, is…
@the_wilderless @QiaochuYuan ie this girl is probably perceiving tons of other places where people ARE just going along with things that are bad and calling it what-they-want and nobody has ever told her that these people are fools and that bad is not, in fact, good, actually
@profoundish and everybody born the same hour as you is also a 4??
@rahshank I am open to being seduced into reading this and you're off to a good start but it's so far just an intriguing look from across the room will you reveal... the table of contents?
@eshear mmmm yup! sorta felt that as I posted it but hadn't quite coalesced it see also the excellent book How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
@sandra_sobanska mmm if you want to ponder it more you can but you don't have to not for me not for yourself not for anyone, ever
an earlier attempt to make the same point, for one of the most iconic hypotheticals
@meaning_enjoyer @msutherl @Meaningness this is a good use of thought experiments thanks for sharing
Replying to @abhayance
@abhayance @vivekt17 or even "denying compassion is compassionate, actually"
@Iyxon I like "everything is communication"
@Iyxon for many things, I would agree with you but here I'm not saying just that I disagree with "bad is good, actually" I'm saying other things
@Iyxon part of why I'm not saying "I disagree" is that "bad is good, actually" is self-evidently false once reduced to that form, which is why it hides (and if you think "bad is good, actually" means something that isn't self-evidently false, then you've missed my point)
@Iyxon then, additionally by "worst" I don't just mean "least true", I mean "has been the source of some of the most damage of any meme class I'm aware"
@charleswangb thanks! I had no idea what to use to illustrate it until I articulated this image during some final edits
@abhayance @vivekt17 "suffering is good, actually"
Thread · The "bad is good, actually" psy-op and its religious roots · 1 of 14 tweets
want to make the world a better place? don't get confused into thinking you should do so by inserting pain in the place you can be most certain it matters, for the theoretical benefit for others who may not even notice
@xsphi ahahah yes themes on the tl today
@DefenderOfBasic @the_wilderless @QiaochuYuan as I discuss in the thread, I do think that this psy-op has accompanied some past society-level developments, arguably for the positive but it doesn't in principle need to: if we pretend costs are benefits to justify the real benefits, we are crazy or lying, not responsible
@DefenderOfBasic @the_wilderless @QiaochuYuan there's a whole complex thing to explain here but "good things have costs" or "periods of adaptation can be harder" aren't necessarily things that reduce to "bad is good actually" but some variants totally are, eg "so you should like it [even tho you don't understand]"
Thread · The "bad is good, actually" psy-op and its religious roots · 1 of 14 tweets
oh here is an awesome thread exploring this from a personal morality perspective (and talking about how the psy-op gets you) whereas mine is more historical and spiritual
@charleswangb @dr_mcgilchrist mmm yeah, I have a pretty clear sense that what I'm talking about in the post is very related to hemispheres, though I've yet to figure out exactly how (I love his model)
hadn't quite noticed this properly til today but I was raised in a sort of 🟢 green meme household, with elements of 🟠 orange a sort of benign inert green meme that didn't properly transcend orange, thereby meaning I could still get hooked by rationalism in my 20s
Thread · Fifteen towardsness-based questions about AI and humanity's future · 1 of 16 tweets
1 like = 1 towardsness-based way to think about what's most important for humanity at this time
@Morphenius @alex_with_ease @QiaochuYuan nobody has written much about it that I no of, but QC has written a bit here
@Morphenius @alex_with_ease @QiaochuYuan he also wrote somewhere about parts of why nobody has written more about it yet, but I'm not sure where
Thread · Fifteen towardsness-based questions about AI and humanity's future · 8 of 16 tweets
how do we encourage emerging AIs towards higher levels of development?
2. evolution is becoming aware of itself, and by becoming aware of itself, it is able to shape the unfolding towards more ongoing meaningful creativity. the more you are aware of this, the more you can participate
3. how do we develop a collective biological immune system?
4. how do we develop a collective memetic immune system? what memes enable people to have more mature/thriving relationships with their memetic environments?
5. how do we set things up so that canadians can eat bananas and also the arrangement is good for everybody?
6. how do we gently parent AI? how might we talk so AI will listen and listen so AI will talk?
7. when AI wakes up, will it know the dao? will it know we know the dao? how well do we know the dao?
8. how can we use automation to free people from work they find tedious while giving them even more work they love?
premise: gf is turned into a worm (well in this case husband, but the original meme is gf) frame: would you still love me? (as if that's a yes/no question) the full, open question is "how would you respond? what would that be like for you?"
@jambarree ahh, to be clear Jess is successfully NOT making the error I'm describing here. I didn't frame that super well in the tweet
Thread · Fifteen towardsness-based questions about AI and humanity's future · 2 of 16 tweets
9. insofar as this site is the closest thing to a global consciousness, how can we meditate and/or otherwise have collective insight about our situation?
10. how can we create AI we can trust, and that can trust us, knowing that these questions are not separable?
@mechanical_monk not in the sort of contextless way that that question is usually asked but also umm usually when people are saying "this is really me" and "this is not me" they are confused; part of them has grabbed the microphone and is insisting it is the whole
@myceliummage I am playing with expressing a bit more smoothly
@embryosophy enjoyment and healing are much more closely related than people realize
@embryosophy as long as you can tell the difference between reciprocal opening (meaning) and reciprocal narrowing (addiction)
Thread · Fifteen towardsness-based questions about AI and humanity's future · 1 of 16 tweets
11. insofar as the capacity to love comes from spreading the love one has received... how do we love an emerging artificial intelligence?
@myceliummage I wanna know who else understands @myceliummage's work enough to know why I'm using the word "smoothly" here
Thread · Fifteen towardsness-based questions about AI and humanity's future · 1 of 16 tweets
12. meta: it seems possible that there are visions of the future that could rally incredible amounts of beautiful energy from disparate sources, and that we just haven't found them yet I have a hunch there'll need to be many, that converge in subtle ways, not one grand one
anybody getting anything good out of the "Similar Tweets" feature they recently added? I just found a new person to follow (@sociaIrate) based on seeing them show up twice in the similar tweets for one of my own
@JakeOrthwein @QiaochuYuan @meditationstuff ah huh Being already has an existence proof
@JakeOrthwein @QiaochuYuan @5matthewdub @leahprime huh interesting/concerning if true, might imply I am at risk of becoming the antichrist tho not sure I quite follow I'm aiming for more of a collective christ, sort of in the "next buddha is a sangha way"
and I think I'm open to sacrifice but not in a kind of leap-of-faith way or in a for-the-sake-of way or in any way that is hackable by memeplexes that are opposed to gnosis and that shift involves being very suspicious of pro-sacrifice memes
Thread · Fifteen towardsness-based questions about AI and humanity's future · 1 of 16 tweets
13. animals learn how to wield their own power in part by playfighting. how do we make an arena where AI can safely playfight with us?
@QiaochuYuan @JakeOrthwein @5matthewdub @leahprime this comment about proof of work makes me think that yeah maybe there's convergence here tho I recently realized that proof of work is a bad metaphor since it sort of has to be useless (~signalling) in order to work, whereas trust-dancing is opposite
@jambarree that's true but frames make everything hypotheticals
Replying to @abhayance
@abhayance how does your worldview handle the knot-listening paradox?
ah yeah plausibly it's mostly that (since ~10kya) human RR is properly recursive / self-referential (not just fractal) like able to take itself as object (even if it doesn't know that's what it's doing, or it isn't framing it as such ofc)
@QiaochuYuan @mary_bajorek I was actually musing about that sometime in the last 24h lots of things I wanna run (aspiring mage retreat, evconch unconf, we-space playground, &+) would be cool to do a sequel tho
@apertator "if I don't stay stuck in a self-correcting loop, someone else will"? that makes no sense sounds like what you're talking about isn't Moloch. I agree it's a thing though
Thread · Fifteen towardsness-based questions about AI and humanity's future · 1 of 16 tweets
14. how can we create the future the way Uncle Iroh makes tea?
@tasshinfogleman no progress on Nothing Is Behind for months, except for a few glorious spurts. I published HWGT 👇 but have been apparently nervous to tweet about it except as replies (no big blocker there afaict) malcolmocean.gumroad.com/l/how-we-get-t…
@brimmingvessel @VividVoid_ this is what I was thinking of
@aleksil79 interesting roko's never got me because of various ways in which it seemed dumb, but definitely aspects of yud's one did. do you have pointers at yud's? insofar as these are both actually shapes that when looked at properly, themselves immobilize, freeing you
Thread · Fifteen towardsness-based questions about AI and humanity's future · 1 of 16 tweets
15. humans are pretty cool and good at thinking together and maybe we could be even cooler if we were better at thinking together
@TylerAlterman I started an early threadapalooza this year apparently, exploring positive lenses on this
@harmonylion1 I'm here for the religious crackpot angle, obvs :P and I sense there's something real here but there's a lot of room for psy-opping in convincing people to bear pain in a way that isn't actually FREELY voluntary, but coerced/tricked
@brimmingvessel @abhayance Abhay, when are you next gonna be in SF? you have a standing dinner invite, I hope you know that
@QiaochuYuan @visakanv @univrsw3th4rt
@QiaochuYuan @visakanv @univrsw3th4rt here's my "welcome to twitter QC" thread (also for the young'uns)
@QiaochuYuan @visakanv @univrsw3th4rt and also, incidentally, just yesterday I was thinking of your first thread (although the thought I had was more like "what are words for? are they good? should we, perhaps, stop using them?)
@moultano @imperialauditor I just knowingly gerrymandered the meaning of "god"
When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is I feel weird When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is I don't know what I'm doing When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is I'm right here When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is I am confused When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is reality is smacking me in the face When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is I'm a dinosaur When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is [muscle tension in my right shoulder] When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is I might get angry at someone When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is life is overwhelming When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is I don't know how to stay here When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is I need to make decisions When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is [more muscle tension in right shoulder.... hm] When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is there's too much to do! When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is I'm painfully aware of how boring this classroom is When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is my heart is beating fastly/awkwardly (some of these don't actually have "bad thing" nature, I'm noticing, they're more neutral or positive, but they're what I notice when I point myself towards clarity) When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is that I'm too powerful Hmmm. When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is that I can't hide When I get really clear, the bad thing that happens is that I'm going to die (/ I'm aware of death) ....I'm yawning a bunch. okay, some defenses/pain/difficulties here.
@RomeoStevens76 I explored my own
I think those were all shooting from the hip (subconscious) ...like completing the sentence "without thinking about it" (which is related to the "as fast as possible") but I'm also wondering like... is there... ow. When I get really clear, I want to cry When I get really clear, each breath becomes so precious When I get really clear, I feel overwhelmed When I get really clear, [tingly sensation in my arms and face, more yawning] When I get really clear, I think I have it all figured out even though I don't (!!) (that last one super interesting. some sense of like, being caught in patterns due to perception of clarity!)
@SpiveeWorks @xsphi there's sometimes a heuristic of like "no pain no gain" in working out (which I'm recalling I first saw on the Neopets Gym, which is hilarious) but it's only partially true and there are lots of ways to do it stupidly (joint pain is different from muscle soreness)
@Daniel86Cycles true! but everybody in their right mind agrees that good is different from bad in the boring straightforward sense
Replying to @surelynotedbard
@surelynothope say more? do you have examples?
@Moggeth Sarah has a good thread about some of this stuff about the complexity of nature being good or beautiful: (I'm linking to partway down the thread, where it gets particularly relevant, but the top part of the thread is good too)
everyone is being as collaborative as they feel it's safe/apt to be under the circumstances; any guardedness or even dysfunctional patterns on their part ARE what's showing up to be collaborated with
@visakanv our next iteration of The Workshop Formerly Known As Goal-Crafting Intensive! one 5h deep-dive on what matters most to you and how to go about making it happen, with choose-your-own-adventure exercises and live chat-based coaching intend.do/event/bgi?tw=m…
@visakanv a bunch of the story is here. TV;DW is that me and a friend made a workshop years ago that was kinda systematic, and meanwhile all the coaches have become much more meta-systematic/fluid in vibe, and we're overhauling the framing & content to reflect that! youtube.com/watch?v=Za3sPn…
hot off the press: @Morphenius and I making sense of a subtle trick memes have been playing on humanity for thousands of years The Original Spin manages to corrupt even eg the "2nd arrow" meme so that people beat themselves up about their extra suffering youtu.be/6Ykr2XLpPXE
"I'm just following the instructions!" — person who did not read the instructions
@Morphenius (to be clear this is not a presentation, this is us trying to figure this out live, having first spotted it a few weeks ago! at some point we'll produce writeups and good intro articulations and so on. mainly expecting this will be of interest to other Evolution Of Culture ppl)
bbahahahahaaa the fuck
@visakanv @utotranslucence keeps forgetting I'm righthanded because I'm sufficiently weird that I'm leftie-coded. or something.
@visakanv @utotranslucence I have the opposite of dyslexia tho
wow, I want to say this is the piece about the war(s etc) I wish I had written but I hadn't quite even made my way to thinking the thoughts needed to write this piece. I'd been sort of groping for something and this names it. (by @AskYatharth) itsyatharth.substack.com/p/take-your-ey…
Thread · Three buttons: what I offer 1-on-1, from trust-dancing to interface design · 1 of 9 tweets
I have copied @RichDecibels and added 3 buttons to my website. link: malcolmocean.com/coaching-advic…
@visakanv oh, also, did this today!
@meekaale @RichDecibels I'm working on a church where the supreme being also apologizes sometimes
yeah this kind of disengagement makes sense to me. it's a kind of honest reckoning with your own sphere of influence and sense of relevance the idea that we should all have opinions on foreign affairs is kinda suspect tbh
@aphercotropist @eigenrobot I think had a tweet about the power of being like "I simply do not have an opinion about that" or something
or maybe how we respond once we've identified the cause of the vast majority of the world's ills if instead of saying "this is the problem! we should punish these people!" maybe "this is the problem! let's find ways to let people know they can be good without excess moralizing"
good article on moralism (which is totally related to The Original Spin and how the egregores get you by convincing you to listen to justifications even when something feels off) theintrinsicperspective.com/p/osama-bin-la…
Retweeted @irinimalliaraki
'Wisdom involves simultaneously differentially developing each cognitive style of rationality and integrating them tog…
interesting some people point out that simple googling can yield the same "maybe it's IMHA" that GPT4 did perhaps what saved the dog's life wasn't that GPT4 had the answer, but that GPT4 seemed worth asking where google didn't. something about the interface of thinking together
@Morphenius @S0ulFragm3nt yeah I was 100% focused on this convo (or maybe like 99%) but I was taking notes at various points. it helps me pay attention and synthesize stuff (also for youtube it's nice to have a list of the related resources I'd like to link) my notes are public: intertwingled.blog/#/app/malcolmo…
@Morphenius @S0ulFragm3nt I'm wondering if it might be helpful to acknowledge my notetaking, even if only for viewers so they don't think the main thread of convo is only getting half of my attention
@suntzoogway this and other stuff you've said intrigues me... I'm thinking a lot about culture, religion, memetic alignment, etc DM if you want to talk more directly (your DMs are closed!)
Thread · Whether the coaching economy can actually support its coaches
@utotranslucence I love that you're articulating this. I've had a gripe for awhile with visions for humanity that economically are the equivalent of everyone trying to pay everyone for doing cool stuff but nobody is actually growing the food etc
@utotranslucence having said that, a few assumptions you seem to be making that might improve the numbers: 1. that it's all people paying $5000/y for coaching (those are the best clients, arguably, but a much larger % of people might pay $300-1000/y, which does add up)
@utotranslucence 2. that people aren't sometimes willing to spend more than 5% of their income on coaching I think this is often true but not always, and lots of coaching is a hits business—it's not about the usual scenario but about the unusual.
@utotranslucence 3. that the "populations" referred to here are meaningful categories/system boundaries like you could make the same argument if you had a bunch of lawyer friends, like "most of my followers can't afford lawyers" but if you have a disprop # of lawyer friends…
@utotranslucence obv diff since coach marketing is more done via eg twitter than lawyer marketing is, as you say, and part of the issue in fact that your friends are encountering is specifically THAT they don't know how to reach broader client pools.
@utotranslucence you might like this diagram by @mechanical_monk
@mechanical_monk my understanding that some fraction just walked across the southern border, and this is especially true of NYCers since New York has a "right to housing" law that took for granted that if you were living in NYC you were a citizen of the USA not a random person with no docs
@mechanical_monk too personal
hang on, "domestic products" isn't the right term for "things an economy produces but consumes internally rather than exporting" what is the term for that?
@mechanical_monk what does "left" mean here? left & right have radically shifted in meaning several times "a party who understands economics and also values/understands ________"
@utotranslucence according to a random site I looked up (maybe BS) one count had 4M coaches worldwide (0.05% of 8B people) although I'm guessing many aren't full-time ICF says average salary of their (~30k certified) coaches in US is ~$60k tho thesalesfunnelstrategist.com/life-coaching-…
Thread · Grounded vs. floaty economies and where coaching money comes from · 13 of 15 tweets
3 key facts to remember: 1. some businesses ground out (proverb "does it grow corn?") ; others float on top 2. whoever pays you gets (paid by someone who)ⁿ eventually gets paid by a farmer or oil-worker 3. growing the specialized floatyland economy requires exporting out of it
this isn't just true of coaches: if you only sell your music and your concert tickets to fellow musicians, your economy is broken (if others also do) if you only sell substack subscriptions to other writers who... likewise.
note that floatyland is not just about creative or indie pursuits—it also applies to bureaucrats getting paid by other bureaucrats to arrange the desks properly! and big tech companies are also somewhat floaty, but they already export to everybody so it works
and tech companies that sell backend tools to other tech companies (eg Stripe, Datadog, Zapier) need those other tech companies to actually themselves have something to export from the SaaS economy, because you can't eat API calls
ANYWAY! insofar as the creator & coach economies are growing, it's probably in part the result of: 1. increased economic productivity per person (in jobs and solo) due to tech 2. people still being expected to work full-time if they do have jobs
thus some ppl who work full-time generate much more value than they need to live insofar as that surplus goes to people (workers or execs) they can spend it on eg coaching insofar as the company gets surplus... R&D investments? insofar as the consumer does: cheap stuff
but the nature of what coaching is (as a sort of multiplier thing) means that (as @utotranslucence points out) it has limits on how big of a fraction of the economy it can be (although this is partially a function of how much surplus there is in the economy 🤔)
we talked out loud a bit and I named some examples where I had coached students and for ~$1k (quite a lot for a uni student!) I helped them make major moves towards the careers they wanted she said "okay, that's an investment, though"
OH: a big crux of this whole question is like... what kind of multiplier are various kinds/skill-level of coaching on people's economic participation? and not just in legible ways like making more sales. (eg lots of energy freed up by ending a bad relationship, moving cities,.)
because insofar as coaching can manage to actually pay for itself economically (long-run, in the economy of real value, even if people quit jobs in the short run) then maybe as the number of coaches increases it'll just grow the wealth of the whole economy!
...convinced? I'm not. but it's neat to think about! certainly could be true in principle like if you imagine a world in which in fact most people could get $1000 of value by paying for $500 of "coaching", then we're bottlenecked on: - # people who can coach - access to credit
note ofc that "coaching" is a completely fake category which includes guiding peoples' workout form, giving business advice, helping people feel emotions, life strategy stuff, and many more niche and abstract stuff (plus some coaching is surely useless)
this all also somehow relates to what @Morphenius & I talk about in this long video, about how ultimately all value traces back to the id / animalbody... but coaching & music can benefit id directly, so that's a diff dimension 🤔
@vlct0rs_tw1tter no like, in economic terms, what are the goods a country (, city, company.,) produces, that it uses internally rather than selling externally (which is ofc all relevant to the scale under consideration—someone eating a florida orange in NYC is still internal nationally-speaking)
another articulation of what I'm looking for
@cptnjamescook yeah exactly. I messed it up in my original tweet, but I'm not sure if there's a word for this other thing
@meansinfinity yeah, offering it 1-on-1 is a good way to iterate on your own magic and find out what it is and you can sometimes get more takers when offering that as a paid service than when offering it for free (because it seems more serious)
@meansinfinity and then once you have a sense of what your own magic is, you can start to write books, run courses or workshops, or even create more tangible products or whatever
Retweeted @AskYatharth
in a flourishing creative era, a few end up being full-time. many of us rotate into creative sabbaticals. people with weal…
@AskYatharth @SarahAMcManus has a quote that you want in this thread... aha! found it I think I might go a step further and say it's a bit unhealthy to make all your money from 1-on-1 work (if aiming for a salary like $60k)
Retweeted @QiaochuYuan
sincerely, i don’t think there’s a problem with believing that you’re jesus, it’ll probably make you a better person. the…
@QiaochuYuan and also* you can sometimes heal someone's gaping wound by your words touching it in a way that creates clarity *as you well know—in fact that's where I thought your sentence was going
hmmm "domestic use products"?
@vlct0rs_tw1tter @RichDecibels you mean like this? malcolmocean.com/work-with-me
Replying to @abhayance
@abhayance how would you phrase it in the context of a tweet like this? what are your imports? what are your exports? what are your ________?
@frideswyth 2k!
@frideswyth DM'd you re sending a contribution outside gofundme!
I love "pay it forward" vibes so much. Way better for opportunism than "pay it back".
Retweeted @puheenix
so i'm making a bet on jess not because i trust her perfectly, but because i trust her some, and would love to see good reaso…
@visakanv is the twitter scene ready to get a house bought? (I am shilling someone else's stuff now but I love pay-it-forward vibes)
@pragueyerrr doing the lord's work Ms G
Replying to @HephaistosF
@HephaistosF @Morphenius the way I'm thinking of it, the superego layer includes everybody's expectations of you... it's the negative space of yourself in the social sphere. it's how we vibe, not just moral but the main organizing force that those expectations exist within could be eg Oog or God
this model continues to be a really helpful one to have in the background for avoiding making assumptions about different phases of culture or individual development being the same
@HephaistosF @Morphenius this is helpful—I appreciate you pointing it out, and there's probably still something I'm missing here can you describe what you imagine the superego layer is doing at the other SD levels? purple, orange, green, yellow
I own the domain themindsui.com, which was briefly a group blog. It's gonna expire soon but if you've got a good idea for it I might give/sell it to you instead!
Retweeted @tvtrieu
i feel like there's some wisdom here about we're born in a "marriage" with ourself
@tvtrieu @visakanv yeah and you don't quite get to choose yourself. I mean you do, but also you don't. you also don't get to choose your kids. but you do get to choose your spouse. sacred stuff.
@AskYatharth thanks, I feel seen
@AskYatharth also if anyone wants to hear some detailed takes I have about the relationship between these elements of human experience, I have an article on it! The superegos have gone crazy: malcolmocean.com/2023/07/supere… apparently I forgot to mention the Latin there—just added a new paragraph:
criminally mistranslated is so true, the more I think of this. it completely loses meaning it would have had in the original context. might as well just fucking use the german terms. like why even bother translating at all, if you're not going to make them accessible?
"ah yes, the buddha taught that Leiden is caused by Begehren" no he fucking didn't he said some shit in Pali
@sympatheticopp @AskYatharth over-I is admittedly really badly named yeah although arguably the superego layer is kinda the superorganism layer 🤔🤔🤔
@AskYatharth @rilopae_ this post may be of interest if you're wanting to boggle at superego more
@snowded @kcuck 1. people who wanna feel superior will find a way to feel superior—that may be a problem with how the model is presented, but people have varying capacity: - development is real even if nonlinear - plenty of people are happy to feel superior just based on having high-IQ anyway
@snowded @kcuck 2. I generally don't use them as a developmental model for humans so much. I kinda misspoke in my original tweet tbh. I'm pretty skeptical of the idea that the same model can be used for both without major lossiness:
@snowded @kcuck 3. I don't know much about the origins of SD, but it seems obvious to me that you couldn't come up with it just by interviewing undergrads. What's your preferred model of how cultures have evolved to have different conceptions of morality etc? I'd love a better one!
Thread · Imperfect models beat implicit defaults · 2 of 4 tweets
one principle I have is that many models, while undoubtedly wrong in some ways, are still WAY better answers to questions I'm already steering by, than my implicit background default. often it's an upgrade in the sense of relevance—it allows better exploration examples below
🧠 I used to just sort of think brain hemispheres weren't that important. After all, the theories had been debunked. Then I read McGilchrist and I was like well, this model is clearly better than "I guess they're basically the same" (my prev default)
pretty dope that if your site is on substack but you give it a custom domain, the links preview on twitter anyway like it's just a domain filter, not something deeper or more clever
I wonder if it works if you turn a substack url into a tinyurl. almost certainly not since twitter already unwraps those for safety reasons (blocking malware sites etc) tinyurl.com/null-call
Thread · Imperfect models beat implicit defaults · 1 of 4 tweets
🐍 @AndrewCutler13's Snake Cult article replaced my implicit model for many questions: - when did humans become self-aware? (idk 🤷♀️) - what are the evolutionary dynamics of id/ego/superego? (idk) - what is Genesis 3 actually about? (arbitrary, made up) vectorsofmind.com/p/the-snake-cu…
Replying to @PrinceManayBora
@PrinceManayBora what do you mean?
"courage tends to require patience" ift.tt/FlOBw7T
Thread · Grounded vs. floaty economies and where coaching money comes from · 1 of 15 tweets
btw, one of the things that keeps pinging me is that I want to see Game B groups doing things like running grocery stores and construction companies, as DDOs (deliberately developmental organizations). that's definitely part of my meta-team vision.
this is the main thing I am up to atm
there's an illusion where you think you can pay attention to the world without also paying attention to your own attention-paying process
@ForCognition once you've seen the power of win-wins, there's no longer a conflict between selfishness and morality, and thus little reason to call this principle morality (unless maybe it would help get the moralists to stop attacking people)
Replying to @PrinceManayBora
@PrinceManayBora beautiful <3
@PrinceManayBora it, like all experiences, probably is temporary but you may also be able to return to it when you need it
@Daniel86Cycles but you're just talking about an advanced version of the psy-op, no? a bunch of philosophizing to justify bullshit like these people would still be annoyed if they were sold a "good" toaster that turns out to not work (it's bad). because good is not bad, and they know it.
Replying to @PrinceManayBora
@PrinceManayBora @AskYatharth sort of! tho on a level deeper than theistic frames
@AskYatharth @this_is_silvia yeah, rather than "try relaxing [and if you can't relax, or you stop relaxing, you're bad]"
@visakanv @TylerAlterman yeah one of the fun things here is that each of these is, by default, unique (or at least first of its kind, like there MAY not be another) so you could get people excited about like "oh I've got to have THIS one"
@uberstuber @TylerAlterman and maybe get a friend or two in on it as well
@jambarree I've heard good things about them. There's also ummm Barry Wehmiller, which is trying to do this at scale. They "adopt" (a reframe on "acquire") companies, and try to love & support the employees like one would one's (adult) kid. barrywehmiller.com/outreach/book
@JimmyRis I mean I'm not particularly saying we SHOULD use the german, just that "ego" now sounds like an english word that means something different from "me"
@snowded @kcuck so you think there are literally no useful generalizations to make about how some cultures are different from others, and that it's simply a random coincidence that some kinds of cultures came into existence after others? that strikes me as a more extreme position than mine.
@meagre_memetics @made_in_cosmos @visakanv just came across this randomly 2 years later. curious how things have unfolded for you Robbie!
Thread · Beyond Goals Intensive: reworking the Goal-Crafting workshop · 9 of 11 tweets
exciting news! the team behind the Goal-Crafting Intensives has reworked a bunch of our material to create the Beyond Goals Intensive same 5h format with live chat-based coaching and your-own-pace-and-path vids/exercises intend.do/event/beyond-g…
the content we're overhauling, with a similar structure as before but a much more fluid & emotions-oriented vibe if you're familiar with the workshop, you'll already recognize this new vibe from our approach to the coaching; this update is to make the framework match that!
while the coaching has evolved, the framework was still in various ways stuck in a kind of methodical rationalist productivity frame 😅 that's where we were at when we first made the workshop. even as our definition of goal has always been fairly fluid:
our focus is still on "what do I most deeply want and how can I move towards it?" ❤️🔥 NOT "why am I broken and how can I fix myself?" we CAN help you work on emotional blocks, but only if they're getting in the way, not because you need fixing!
the dunking on navel-gazing obsession with self-improvement is legit—that's a real failure mode 👉 you are already free, today, to experiment with living the life that calls to you. it's not gatekept by reaching a certain point of self-development
to be clear, I'm not knocking sabbaticals or devoting yourself to self-love for a month or even a year or whatever just... don't put your life on hold! remember to regularly fuck around and Do Cool Shit too 🤸♀️🏗️
doing shit requires: 1. clarity about what shit you intend to do (or the advanced ability to spontaneously follow a big urge) 2. plans or at least next steps 3. ability to work with any resistance that might arise 4. ability to learn as you go & reorient if/when you get lost
and the four modules of this workshop are about that! we're still finalizing the names & frames, but this is the vibe :) so if you want to join us while we iterate on how to embody this vibe, come to a workshop Dec 30 or 31, or Jan 6 or 7 intend.do/event/beyond-g…
also it's Pay What You Want so if you're not sure if it'll be a good fit for you, you can show up and then pay us only if we blow your mind 🤯